Scriptures and Doctrine :: Once Saved...Always Saved???

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Scriptures and Doctrine :: Once Saved...Always Saved???
Once Saved...Always Saved??? - posted by UniqueWebRev (), on: 2007/5/15 4:42
I am placing this on it's own thread, as I think the question must be explored.
Quote:
-------------------------
staff wrote:
.... but below is just your own personal belief their is as much arguement for "once saved always saved "as to the arguement of you can lose your're sa
lvation...I am not saying that sinning has no consequences,nor I am saying that you can't lose rewards but I am saying "where sin abounds grace abou
nds even more" and it takes alot to lose your're salvation if at all possible.
rgds staff
-------------------------
Dear Staff,
Once saved, always saved, is true for those that move forward in the Holy Spirit, growing in grace, and ripening into spiri
tual maturity.
But that Grace is very easily lost.
Romans 2
1. Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou cond
emnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape t
he judgment of God?
5. But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation
of the righteous judgment of God;
6. Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7. To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8. But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10. But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11. For there is no respect of persons with God.
12. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall
be judged by the law;
13. (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the l
aw, are a law unto themselves:
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the
mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Grace alone saves us through Jesus Christ, but alas, it is so easy to become complacent, and to stop walking in faith.
At that point, one become particularly vulnerable to the Evil One, who with lies and temptations, will seek to turn the com
placent away from their first love of Jesus.
And one cannot stand still even in grace. Unless one walks forward, strengthening the faith walk, and growing in gifts of t
he Holy Spirit, and reaping the fruit there of, in patience, kindness, humility, endurance, joy and love, sowing into other li
ves what has been sown into yours, you become on the the foolish virgins, the unprofitable servent, cast into utter darkn
ess, and judged and found wanting at the end of the Tribulation.
Matthew 25
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1. Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the brid
egroom.
2. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4. But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, an
d buy for yourselves.
10. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and t
he door was shut.
11. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
14. For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unt
o them his goods.
15. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability;
and straightway took his journey.
16. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me
five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will ma
ke thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gai
ned two other talents beside them.
23. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make th
ee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping wh
ere thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25. And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not
, and gather where I have not strawed:
27. Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received
mine own with usury.
28. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken
away even that which he hath.
30. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of h
is glory:
32. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth
his sheep from the goats:
33. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared
for you from the foundation of the world:
35. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me
in:
36. Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and ga
ve thee drink?
38. When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39. Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the le
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ast of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the
devil and his angels:
42. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43. I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or
sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye
did it not to me.
46. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
It is not enough to be saved, and live under grace. Yes, there are only the laws of love to follow, and the gifts of the Holy
Spirit to obtain, and use, to the glory of God.
But once you stand still in Jesus, you are in grave danger.
Yes, it may be possible to still receive one's salvation and do nothing over and above what Christ has done, for all our ri
ghteousness is in Him.
But the moment one stops going forward, you become prey for the one that seeks to devour you.
The devil is wise in the way of decit, and confusion. And oh, how easy it is to be turned around in your path, and find yo
urself, convinced that grace will save you, as you walk farther and farther away from Jesus.
And if you turn your back on the Lord, not in the foolish innocence of the newly born in Christ, but of the self satisfied La
odicean Church, who believes they are forever safe, no matter that they only worship themselves and their desires, are t
hey not at risk of grieving the Holy Spirit away completely, and having their consciences seared?
Even pastors and teachers can lead people astray, else the state of the Christian Church in America would not be crumb
ling. And those that do not seek their Bibles early and often, who do not pray, who do not seek the guidance of the Holy
Spirit, and the protection of God and His angels, can they not go beyond grace into depravity?
Do not speak from opinion only, but search the scriptures.
And believe me, I would be delighted to be proved wrong.
Blessings,
Forrest
Re: Once Saved...Always Saved??? - posted by hmmhmm (), on: 2007/5/15 4:51
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the b
ook of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
to me this meens you can have your name writen in the book of life.... and that it can be 'blot' out to.
blot according to Strongs
G1813
ἐξαλείφω
exaleiphō
ex-al-i'-fo
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From G1537 and G218; to smear out, that is, obliterate (erase tears, figuratively pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away.
and here is Thayers...
G1813
ἐξαλείφω
exaleiphō
Thayer Definition:
1) to anoint or wash in every part
1a) to besmear: i.e. cover with lime (to whitewash or plaster)
2) to wipe off, wipe away
2a) to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out
Part of Speech: verb
Re: Once Saved...Always Saved??? - posted by enid, on: 2007/5/15 5:14
I don't have anymore to add to what has been said, or to the scriptures concerning this subject.
However, there are those who are mislead into thinking, once saved always saved.
It is prevalent and obvious within churches today.
On account of the fear of man rather than a fear of God.
To keep the numbers in the church up rather than to lose people.
And sadly, because of self-deception that is in the churches today.
Also, peoples feelings, we don't want to hurt them do we, because God loves them.
The love gospel if you like, and forgetting that on the other side of the coin is God's wrath.
What the word of God says it says. We either take it or leave it, but don't change it.
God bless.
Re:, on: 2007/5/15 7:24
I believe if someone "falls away", then they were never truly saved to begin with. If you are truly saved you will grow, you
will mature, you will serve God, you will have a desire to study His Word... etc etc.
Nothing can seperate us from the love of God, but we have to be abiding in His love. Many think they are, when they are
not.
So yes... once saved always saved. But very few are truly saved.
Krispy
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Re: - posted by enid, on: 2007/5/15 7:53
Krispy,
Let's look at what scripture says and think about it.
2 Tim 4v10, 'for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world...
Demas was one of Paul's travelling companions in spreading the gospel.
Was he then not saved when he traveled with Paul?
Demas loved the world and 2 John 2v15 tells us not to love the world, because it means the love of the Father is not in h
im.
1 Tim 4v1 tells us, 'Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith giving heed to de
ceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.
In order to depart from the faith, they had to have a faith to begin with.
So while it might seem like they weren't saved, they can depart from God.
Rev 3v2, 'Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works per
fect before God.
Also in verse 16 we read, 'So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth
.
Just a few thoughts.
God bless.
Re:, on: 2007/5/15 8:08
Quote:
-------------------------The love gospel if you like, and forgetting that on the other side of the coin is God's wrath
-------------------------
Absolutely, there are two sides to the coin. God is a God of wrath because He is just, and He will judge all men accordin
g to His Holy Law. I can either be judged based upon my obedience to His law, or based upon the obedience of another.
(Christ)
But don't forget that the full wrath of God was poured out upon His Son. He provided a Lamb; He saw the travail of His s
oul and was satisfied.
The wrath of God is no longer a fear for those who are in Christ.
The problem is that the Gospel is not preached, or explained correctly in the first place. If an individual understands that
inevitable judgment from a Holy God awaits them, and their only hope is the Righteousness of another, and that is the b
asis/ heart of the Gospel then they would do well.
Let's not change the Glory of the Gospel because we think we see an apathetic Church. Fear of wrath is not what keeps
a saint. We are kept by the power of God.
The Glory of the Gospel is that we have been saved from the wrath of God. We have been given the righteousness of a
nother, and we have been translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son.
The Gospel is first, facts...objective truths...the Gospel is an established reality performed by God, that, by the Grace of
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God we inherit by faith.
A wonderful study would be to search the scriptures and see the contrast of the Blessings of being in Christ and the curs
es of being in Adam.
Re: - posted by hmmhmm (), on: 2007/5/15 8:11
well krispys thoughts are intresting too... i think of
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continu
ed with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Re:, on: 2007/5/15 8:30
Quote:
-------------------------The wrath of God is no longer a fear for those who are in Christ.
-------------------------
True, but dont think for a second that He doesnt chastise His children. A preacher friend of mine always says "Whom the
Lord loveth He beats the hell out of!"
Krispy
Re: - posted by JesusIsMyLrd (), on: 2007/5/15 8:37
LOL Krispy!!!
i'll have to remember that!
So let's be obedient children, and not rebels (See old testament punishments on rebels as type and shadow of our day p
erhaps... just a thought, not theology!!) and let's let the hell out!!!
i appreciate your thoughts!!
with grins :-P
-nathan
Re:, on: 2007/5/15 8:50
Quote:
-------------------------True, but dont think for a second that He doesnt chastise His children. A preacher friend of mine always says "Whom the Lord lovet
h He beats the hell out of!"
-------------------------
I think you would agree that chastisment and wrath are two completely differnt things.
Re: - posted by JaySaved, on: 2007/5/15 9:33
hmmhmm wrote:
Quote:
-------------------------Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I
will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
to me this meens you can have your name writen in the book of life.... and that it can be 'blot' out to.
-------------------------
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Take a look at this:
Psalm 69:28 (NASB), "May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous."
Who is the 'They'?
Verse 4: "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are po
werful, being wrongfully my enemies; What I did not steal, I then have to restore."

Verse 12: "Those who sit in the gate talk about me, And I am the song of the drunkards."
Verse 18: "Oh draw near to my soul and redeem it; Ransom me because of my enemies!"
Verse 24: "Pour out Your indignation on them, And may Your burning anger overtake them."
Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm and the 'they' being referred to are enemies of the righteous. I find it very interesting tha
t the Psalmist says to God 'blot them out of the book of life'.
Why were they there to begin with?
Re: - posted by enid, on: 2007/5/15 9:45
Doesn't Moses ask God to forgive the sin of Israel and if He would not to blot him out of the book which God has written
? Exodus 32v32
God's reply was 'Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book'
Just more things to think about.
God bless.
Re: - posted by JaySaved, on: 2007/5/15 9:51
Quote:
-------------------------Doesn't Moses ask God to forgive the sin of Israel and if He would not to blot him out of the book which God has written? Exodus 3
2v32
God's reply was 'Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book
-------------------------
It gives the impression that everyone's name is in the book of life until...
Re: Things to think about?, on: 2007/5/15 9:54
Quote:
-------------------------Doesn't Moses ask God to forgive the sin of Israel and if He would not to blot him out of the book which God has written? Exodus 3
2v32
-------------------------
Wasn't Israel, as a nation, under a different covenant than believers?(old or new testament)
Israel's covenant..that of works - "Do this and you shall live!
Eternal Abrahamic covenant...that of a Promise - "He who has the Son has Life"
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Re: Great point!, on: 2007/5/15 9:58
Quote:
-------------------------It gives the impression that everyone's name is in the book of life until
-------------------------
Great point!
Re: - posted by ginnyrose (), on: 2007/5/15 10:09
Revelation gives us some interesting insights into the 'Book of Life".
Rev. 20:12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was
opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judge out of those things which were written in the books, accordin
g to their works." Apparently, there are numerous books and ONE of them is the book of life. The word "Blot" would sugg
est something that was written there, but now is being erased, smeared over, as another poster pointed out.
The greatest danger I see in this OSAS discussion occurs when one would hold to this position and then say they can liv
e however they "want" to, including sin and that God will not hold him responcible, contrary to scriptures which declare th
at those who habitually sin will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. It is this doctrine which, IMHO, has done more to prom
ote apostasy in this USA then anything I know.
Blessings,
ginnyrose
Re:, on: 2007/5/15 10:13
Quote:
-------------------------I think you would agree that chastisment and wrath are two completely differnt things.
-------------------------
Obviously... that was kinda my point.
Krispy
Re: - posted by JaySaved, on: 2007/5/15 10:14
Quote:
-------------------------The greatest danger I see in this OSAS discussion occurs when one would hold to this position and then say they can live however
they "want" to, including sin and that God will not hold him responcible, contrary to scriptures which declare that those who habitually sin will not inherit
the kingdom of heaven. It is this doctrine which, IMHO, has done more to promote apostasy in this USA then anything I know.
-------------------------
That is why I do not like to use the phrase 'Once Saved Always Saved'. It has been misunderstood in the modern churc
h to mean: 'Say this prayer and you are right with God even if you show absolutely no fruit of regeneration.'
I prefer the phrase 'Perseverance of the Saints'. Those who are truly children of God will persevere to the end and show
fruit of regeneration.
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Re: - posted by PassingThru, on: 2007/5/15 11:08
Krispy
Quote:
-------------------------
I believe if someone "falls away", then they were never truly saved to begin with.
-------------------------
That still leaves a conflict with the 'blotting out' scripture in Revelations and the statements in Jeremiah where God clearl
y changes his mind on a nation's destiny based on their decisions.
I think God gives us the freedom of choice, but foresees the choices we will make. I can 'foresee' what my daughter will
do with a piece of chocolate, but her destiny doesn't force her to eat it. :-)
PassingThru
Re: - posted by JaySaved, on: 2007/5/15 11:26
Quote:
-------------------------That still leaves a conflict with the 'blotting out' scripture in Revelations and the statements in Jeremiah where God clearly changes
his mind on a nation's destiny based on their decisions.
-------------------------
Based on my reading of the bible (see Psalm 69), I do not see a conflict.
Concerning Jeremiah, did God not know the nation would repent? God simply put forward a "do this and this will happe
n" and "do that and that will happen", but He knew the entire time what would happen.
Isaiah 46:9-10
"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declarin
g the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, an
d I will do all my pleasure:"
Re: - posted by GraceAlone (), on: 2007/5/15 11:31
Ok- once again... The bible teaches that when God saves a man- THAT MAN WILL BE SAVED in the last day-
otherwise that man was never saved.
1 John 3:6 "Whoever (unrepentantly bathes in) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

1 Peter 1:4, 5 "4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5
who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
John 3:16 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life;"
John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life,
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and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
1 John 5:13 "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you
have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."
John 6:39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise i
t up at the last day."
John 10:28-29 "28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My h
and. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's h
and."
Eph 1:13, 14 "having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"
Phil 1:6 "6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of J
esus Christ;"
Romans 6:14 "14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."
Phil 2:13 "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."
1 John 2:19 "19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued wit
h us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us."
Romans 8:38-39 "38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things p
resent nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the lov
e of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Let me explain...
Philippians 1:6
"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Chris
t" IT IS CHRIST WHO BEGAN.
Phil 2:12-13 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my
absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for
His good pleasure." IT IS GOD WHO WORKS.
1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they
went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." All who have ever fallen away(permanently)
were never saved in the first place.
******If you are TRULY saved(justified) you will continue being saved(sanctified) and will finally be saved(glorified).
_______________________________________________
1 John Cpts 2 & 3
"3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not
keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is per
fected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He
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