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^^ TRANSFER OF BLM-MANAGED LANDS TO THE STATES Y 4. R 31/3:104-3. ^^ BLB-n.n^êdUnds to th... Transfer of . .^x. ^Ji^ iNAiiONAL PARKS, FORESTS, • AND LANDS OFTHE COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION ON H.R. 2032 A BILL TO TRANSFER THE LANDS ADMINISTERED BY THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT TO THE STATE IN WHICH THE LANDS ARE LOCATED AUGUST 1, 1995—WASHINGTON, DC Serial No. 104-32 Printed for the use ofthe Committee orfc^ôSfe U.S. GOVERNMENTPRINTINGbtltfJÊJoin "*^ WASHINGTON : 1995 ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice SuperintendentofDocuments,CongressionalSalesOffice,Washington,DC 20402 ISBN 0-16-047771-9 TRANSFER OF BLM-MANAGED LANDS TO THE STATES Y 4. R 31/3:104-32 ^^ Transfer of BLn-nm9e<l L^"^^ t° ^''- ^ ,—.... xô. uiN iNAiluNAL PAKKS, FORESTS, AND LANDS COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION ON H.R. 2032 A BILL TO TRANSFER THE LANDS ADMINISTERED BY THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT TO THE STATE IN WHICH THE LANDS ARE LOCATED AUGUST 1, 1995—WASHINGTON, DC Serial No. 104-^2 Printed for the use ofthe Committee orfc^sot U.S. GOVERNMENTPRINTING'6t^m%.y/\/P//0, , ForsalebytheU.S.GovernmentPrintingOffice ^^**.i;»^y£p^ SuperintendentofDocuments,CongressionalSalesOffice.Washington,DC20402 ISBN 0-16-047771-9 COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES DONYOUNG,Alaska,Chairman JAMESV. HANSEN,Utah GEORGEMILLER,CaUfornia JIMSAXTON,NewJersey NICKJ. RAHALLU,WestVirginia ELTONGALLEGLY, CaUfornia BRUCEF.VENTO, Minnesota JOHNJ. DUNCAN,Jr.,Tennessee DALEE. KILDEE,Michigan JOELHEFLEY, Colorado PATWILLIAMS,Montana JOHNT. DOOLITTLE,California SAMGEJDENSON,Connecticut WAYNEALLARD,Colorado BILLRICHARDSON,NewMexico WAYNET. GILCHREST,Maryland PETERA. DeFAZIO,Oregon KENCALVERT,California ENIF.H.FALEOMAVAEGA,American RICHARDW. POMBO,California Samoa PETERG.TORKILDSEN.Massachusetts TIMJOHNSON,SouthDakota J.D. HAYWORTH,Arizona NEILABERCROMBIE,Hawaii FRANKA. CREMEANS,Ohio GERRYE. STUDDS,Massachusetts BARBARACUBIN,Wyoming SOLOMONP. ORTIZ,Texas WESCOOLEY,Oregon OWENB. PICKETT,Virginia HELENCHENOWETH,Idaho FRANKPALLONE,Jr.,NewJersey LINDASMITH,Washington CALVINM. DOOLEY,CaUfornia GEORGE P. RADANOVICH,CaUfornia CARLOSA. ROMERO-BARCELO, Puerto WALTERB.JONES,Jr.,NorthCaroUna mco WILLIAMM. (MAC)THORNBERRY,Texas MAURICE D. HINCHEY, NewYork RICHARD(DOC)HASTINGS,Washington ROBERTA.UNDERWOOD, Guam JACKMETCALF,Washington SAMFARR,CaUfornia JAMESB. LONGLEY,Maine JOHNB. SHADEGG,Arizona JOHNE.ENSIGN,Nevada W.J. (BILLY)TAUZm,Louisiana DanielValKish,ChiefofStaff ChristineKennedy,ChiefClerk/Administrator JohnLawrence,DemocraticStaffDirector DavidDye,ChiefCounsel SUBCOMMITTEE ONNATIONALPARKS, FORESTS AND LANDS JAMESV. HANSEN,Utah,Chainnan JOHNJ. DUNCAN,Jr.,Tennessee BILLRICHARDSON,NewMexico JOELHEFLEY,Colorado NICKJ. RAHALLII,WestVirginia JOHNT. DOOLITTLE,CaUfornia BRUCEF.VENTO,Minnesota WAYNEALLARD,Colorado DALEE. KILDEE,Michigan RICHARDW. POMBO,CaUfornia PATWILLLVMS.Montana PETERG.TORKILDSEN,Massachusetts ENIF.H. FALEOMAVAEGA,American J.D. HAYWORTH,Arizona Samoa BARBARACUBIN,Wyoming GERRYE. STUDDS,Massachusetts WESCOOLEY,Oregon CARLOSA. ROMERO-BARCELO,Puerto HELENCHENOWETH, Idaho Rico LINDASMITH,Washington NATHANDEAL,Georgia GEORGE P. RADANOVICH,CaUfornia MAURICED. HINCHEY,NewYork JOHNB. SHADEGG,Arizona ROBERTA.UNDERWOOD,Guam AllenFreemyer,StaffDirector/Counsel SteveHodapp,ProfessionalStaff (II) CONTENTS Page HearingheldAugust1, 1995 1 TextofH.R.2032 71 BriefingpaperonH.R.2032 79 StatementsofMembers: Hansen,Hon.JamesV.,aU.S. RepresentativefromUtahandChairman, SubcommitteeonNationalParks,ForestsandLands 1 Richardson,Hon.Bill,aU.S.RepresentativefromNewMexico 8 Skeen,Hon.Joe,aU.S.RepresentativefromNewMexico 2 Stump,Hon.Bob,aU.S.RepresentativefromArizona 9 Thomas,Hon.Craig,aU.S.SenatorfromWyoming 5 Preparedstatement 8 Statementsofwitnesses: Baughman,Mike,President,IntertechServicesCorporation 56 Preparedstatement 131 Bradley,Walter,LieutenantGovernorofNewMexico 4 Cohen, Bonnie, Assistant Secretary ofPolicy Management and Budget, DepartmentofInterior 31 Preparedstatement 99 Hocker,Phil,President,MineralPolicyCenter 58 Preparedstatement 144 Jamison,Cy,formerDirector,BureauofLandManagement 30 Preparedstatement 96 Lea,George,President,PublicLandsFoundation 54 Preparedstatement 126 Leshy,John,Solicitor,DepartmentoftheInterior 37 Magagna,Jim,VicePresident,WildlifeManagementInstitute 49 Preparedstatement 113 Williamson,Lonnie,President,IntertechServiceCorporation 52 Preparedstatement 124 Additionalmaterialsupplied: Bureau of Land Management, Department of Interior: Public Rewards fromPublicLands 162 Chase, JoAnn K., Executive Director, National Congress of American Indians:LetterofAugust1, 1995,toHon.JamesHansen 229 Chenoweth, Hon. Helen, aU.S. Representativefrom Idaho:Newsrelease from Celia Boddington ofthe Bureau ofLand Management: BLM Re- portCitesRewardsfromPublicLands 94 Dewey, Robert, and Tom Uniak, Defenders of WildUfe: Giving BLM LandstotheStates:aLosingProposition 152 Gorte, Ross W., Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress: Memo to House Committee on Resources on BLM Revenues and Ex- penditures 83 Hassell, M. Jean, Arizona Land Commissioner: Letter ofJvdy 28, 1995, toHon.JamesHansen 226 Powell, Ray, Commissioner ofPublic Lands, New Mexico: The Proposed DivestitureofPublicLands 159 Stewart, Ted, Executive Director, State ofUtah Department ofNatural Resources:LetterofJuly31, 1995,toHon.JamesHansen 230 (III) TRANSFER OF BLM-MANAGED LANDS TO THE STATES TUESDAY, AUGUST 1, 1995 House of REPRESE^^ÂTIVES, Subcommittee on Na- tional Parks, Forests and Lands, Committee on Resources, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in room 1334, Longworth House Building, Hon. James V. Hansen [chairman ofthe subcommittee] presiding. HON.JAMESV. HANSEN,AU.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROMUTAH AND CHAHIMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL PARKS, FORESTSANDLANDS Mr. Hansen. The Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Lands convenes to consider H.R. 2032 which would provide for the transfer oflands managed by the Bureau ofLand Management to the States. H.R, 2032 grows out ofthe continual frustrations expe- rienced by State and local governments who struggle to provide sound futures for their citizens but find it impossible because they have little orno control overtheirlands. This is a not a recent difficulty; the western States have faced the impossibilityofcontrollingtheirown destinyfordecades. This Administration has intensified the feelings ofthe people in the West, and the BLM can blame themselves for being on the choppingblock. People who live, work and play on these public lands want the best forthem. BLM is not responsible forthe heritage ofourpublic lands, it is the rancher who improves the range, the logger and miner who provide vital resources to our economies, the State who manages our wildlife, the county who provides law enforcement, emergency services and maintains our roads, the families that recreate on these lands, and the thousands of people who act as volunteer stewards who created the heritage of our public lands. H.R. 2032 is not about giving this heritage away but is about our abilityto guarantee this heritageforfutureAmericans. Since 1782 this Nation has disposed of 1.1 billion acres ofpublic lands. More recently, this Nation took aggressive steps to settle the Midwest and far West. Whether it was the Homestead Act, the Timber Culture Act, the Timber and Stone Act, the Desert Land Act and the numerous other land disposal policies, this country soughtto getthese lands in the hands ofthe people. And we were highly successful. The entire East, Midwest and South were given their lands and were given the ability to control (1) their futures. The West simply wants our chance to decide for our- selvesv.'hat isbestforthepeoplewhousethese lands. We have come a long way since the Homestead Act, and we un- derstand how best to manage our lands. It is my every intention that these lands remain public because that is their highest and best use. However, theAdministration and other environmental interests make the assumption that it is only the Federal Govern- ment who can manage lands for the public, that only the Federal Government can maintain access for recreation, or that subsidies to the BLM to maintain their ineffective and isolated management policies is somethingthe Stateswouldbefoolish to give up. I can promiseyouthatpeople oftheWestwillgladly letyou keep your subsidies, keep all ofthe so-called public rewards and permit the governments closesttothe people to manage the people's lands. It is time Congress returned to trusting the respective States, to putting power in the individual and to restore the dream ofliberty in the rural West. I thank our witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee and lookforwardtothetestimony. Today we have a very interesting group ofthree panels, but we will start with our colleague from New Mexico, Joe Skeen who will be our lead-off witness. Senator Craig Thomas from Wyoming is also sponsoring this identical bill, and he has a problem right now, we are given to imderstand that he will walk in in a few minutes, and we will turn to him andthen we will start with the others. So, Congress Joe Skeen, it is always a privilege to have you here, and we will turn thetimetoyou, sir. STATEMENTOFHONF.RJOOMENSEKEWEMNE,XAIUC.OS.REPRESENTATIVE Mr. Skeen. Well, thankyouverymuch, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. It is a delight to be here this morning. As a matter offact, I consider this to be a very historic day, because personally I waited a longtime to appearbefore this subcommittee and discuss this legislation which is H.R. 2032, and I appreciate having as cosponsor the Chairman of this Committee. It sure makes access aloteasier. This bill will turn the management functions ofBureau ofLand Management lands to these western States that we have been dis- cussing. H.R. 2032, ofwhich I am an original cosponsor, is revolutionary and long overdue. The 13 western States and New Mexico in par- ticular, have witnessed BLM's aggressive tendency to overregulate, and its massive proliferation and growth in personnel since the 1950's. I believe that transferring BLM lands to the States is a common sense approach to bringing public management to these areas clos- erto the people who Uve nearthese lands, work on them, use them for recreation. This is in stark contrast to those who believe that BLM lands must remain in Federal hands in order to preserve the public's interest. In my opinion, the State ofNew Mexico would be much more re- sponsive to industry, recreation £ind environmental interests, just as every other State east ofthe 30-inch rainfall belt handles theirs today. Why shouldwebetreated anydifferently? 3 Currently, within New Mexico's boundaries, BLM controls approximately three times more land than the New Mexico State Land Office, but it employs approximately nine times more employ- ees. This is clearly an example ofan overstuffed budget and an in- abilityofourFederal bureaucracyto do an efficientjob. Ifyou give credence to the environmental groups' assertion that the West is being destroyed by ranchers, miners, and timber com- panies even with BLM's ever-expanding budgets, you might con- clude that the BLM is not an effective agency. And I believe that it is time to try a new management prescription, and H.R. 2032 is a step in the right direction. This bill also saves the taxpayers millions of dollars by doing away with any so-called subsidy for public lands ranchers and eliminating most ofthe BLM budget. H.R. 2032 is a very efficient and cost-effective approachtomanagingpubliclands. I firmly believe it is one ofthe best and most efficient methods ofreducing the Federal budget while increasing the States' rights. BLM spends approximately $400 million more than it retains from royalties, fees and receipts from timber, grazing and energy development nationwide. On the other hand, BLM retains approximately $100 million more than it spends to manage lands in New Mexico. Therefore, New Mexico producers are subsidizing the Federal Government's activities in other States. Just like the eastern States, New Mexico should be managing these lands and allowed to keep any money generated from activities within its boundaries. H.R. 2032 requires the Secretary ofthe Interior to offer all BLM lands within each State to the Governor and the State legislature whomay acceptorrejectthe offer. Once a State accepts the lands, they would be transferred to the State after a ten-year period to allow for the transition. All valid existingrights would continue tobe recognized. Valid existing leases and permits on lands to be transferred would be honored forthe term ofthe current agreements and managed under their current terms and conditions. Designated wilderness areas will be managed by the State as wilderness and in ac- cordance with the requirements specified by the Wilderness Act of 1964. Mr. Chairman, there is none more distinguished a gentleman that I know of than the State of New Mexico's Lieutenant Gov- ernor, Walter Bradley, who is with me this morning and will present testimony in very strong support ofH.R. 2032. He will also give you some idea about whether or not they would be willing to acceptthe BLM lands under the conditions set forth in this legislation. I believe the State of New Mexico is leading the way in the States' efforts to take back public lands managed by the Federal Government. New Mexico and other western States should be treated like every State eastofthe 30-inchrainfallbelt. I thankyou for this opportunity to testify, and I would entertain any questions that you or other members of the Committee may have. Mr. Hansen. Thank you. Representative Skeen, We appreciate your excellent testimony. We are honored to have with us Walter D. Bradley, Lieutenant Governor ofthe State ofUtah. It is a privilege to haveyouwithus. Wewillturnthe timetoyou, sir. STATEMENTOFWALTERBRADLEY,LIEUTENANTGOVERNOR OFNEWMEXICO Mr. Bradley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members ofthe Com- mittee. I want to thankyou again for allowing me to appear before you today to speak in favor of House Resolution 2032. The State ofNew Mexico is the fifth largest State in land mass in the United States totalingjust under 78 million acres ofland. Our population ofabout 1.6 million people is spread out in pockets all over a State that is rich in natural resources. We are primarily an agriculture and mineral State with many recreational/tourist areas and in November 1994's election, I believe that the citizens ofNew Mexico and the Nation sent a strong and loud message to government. Fed up with too much government regulation, they feel government has become overly intrusive notonlyin theirbusinesshvesbuttheirpersonal lives as well. Many ofour citizens view government as a big brother who once extended ahelpinghandbutnowresorts to strong-armingthe little ones. Government has gone from being a servant to being a dic- tator. The general feeling of the people is that Washington can't pos- sibly know how best to help them with the running oftheir daily businesses and personal lives. Theyfeel the best government is the one closest to them. One they can actively participate in rather than one in which they have to rely on the participation ofothers. In the State ofNew Mexico, approximately one-third ofour land is under Federal management. We have oil, gas, coal, C02, potash, sodium, lumber, grazing and recreational royalties and fees on these lands. Yet despite our role as the State where these products come from, we have direct influence on neither the negotiations ofthese contracts northe disbursementofroyalties. Forgive me, but having the Federal Government dictate a blan- ket management program to 50 diverse States is a bit like buying the same size shoe for everyone in your family. Simply put, it is not always thebestfit. With the advent ofthe various acts passed by the U.S. Congress that affect land use, the State has no direct influence in the forma- tion ofregulations to implement these acts, not to mention the fact that enforcement is rarely coordinated with our law enforcement agencies. This causes great hardship on our citizens while at the same time creating a sense ofisolatedfrustration thatourinterests and concerns are notbeingconsidered. At a time when the Federal Government is working to bring its budget under control and is looking to eliminate duplication and become efficient, itonlymakes senseto include the States. We have in the State of New Mexico a department which per- forms many ofthe same functions as the Bureau ofLand Manage- ment. We can, we believe, manage the Federal land and preserve the intent of the Federal law for less taxpayer money and with greater benefits to the citizens. We in New Mexico think a better management system will be createdby a relationship between Fed-