Ray Edwards Show, Episode 310 The Most Ripped-Off Copywriter Alive

38 Pages·2017·0.26 MB·English

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Ray Edwards Show, Episode 310
The Most Ripped-Off Copywriter Alive
Ray Edwards: Ray Edwards Show, Episode 310. The most ripped off copywriter
alive.
Voice over 1: It's the Ray Edwards Show. This is the podcast for prosperity with
purpose.
[song]
Let's change the world and watch your business grow, welcome to the Ray Edwards
Show. The Ray Edward Show.
Ray: No, not what you're thinking, it's not me. I'm not the most ripped off copywriter
alive. Although it's getting there because one of the templates that we give in our
course, I see it now used by a lot of people.
Sean: Oh really?
Ray: Many of whom did not take the course.
Sean: Interesting.
Ray: I don't know how that happens.
Sean: Yes, seriously.
Ray: It's like in the hemisphere. There's a shift happening in the copywriting world.
We're going to be delving into the interview archives for an interview I've never aired
before on the podcast. It's with one of the guys who really got me started in the
professional world of copyrighting. This is a guy who I've had so much respect for his
work that I went to a conference, traveled all the way across the country with the
intention of spending $5,000 to buy his copywriting swipe file package. Which I
believe at the time he called the mother of all packages. Which if you think about it
that could be misinterpreted by people. I don't know how, I have no idea, I don't
know what you're thinking.
John Carlton is the guy I'm talking about. Now, some of you right now are recoiling
because he's a very street savvy, hard charging, sales guy, and for some people
that's not their style. But you've got to get past that because behind the rough and
tumble copy that he writes. He writes for male oriented markets, like golfers and
people who teach street fighting, stuff like that, so obviously, the copy is going to be
a little rougher because it's for that audience. He's got a degree in psychology, and
he understands how the human mind works and how people make buying decisions,
and he uses his knowledge of behavioral psychology to sell stuff. Which I think is a
pretty smart idea. We'll be talking to John coming up.
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Voice over 2: Does anyone want to live a life that is long and prosperous.
Voice over 3: Spiritual foundations.
Ray: This is one of my favorite scriptures to quote just because it sounds weird.
Actually, there's a lot of those, but this one is the one I like to quote a lot. "Go to the
ant, you sluggard. Consider her ways and be wise. Which having no captain,
overseer or ruler provides her supplies in the summer and gathers her food in the
harvest." It's from the book of Proverbs 6:6 through 8.
I was reading a little bit from the Maxwell Leadership Bible, which-- Now don't get
me into the whole discussion about all the different versions of the Bible. Like the
Fireman's Bible, the Fisherman's Bible, the Hubble collector's Bible. [chuckles] John
Maxwell, I have a lot of respect for. He has some great insights much of the time. In
his passage about this particular part of scripture, he says, “Pay attention to the
metaphor of the ant.” He has an acronym which is what sold me on quoting from his
leadership Bible because he's an acronym guy.
His acronym is ANTS, A-N-T-S. The lessons the ant teaches us he says can be
summarized this way. A, attitude of initiative. Ants don't need a boss to tell them how
to get started. I like that. N, nature of integrity. Maxwell says ants work faithfully and
need no outside accountability to keep them doing right. Well, because if they don't
do right, they'll die. That probably keeps you pretty accountable. Well?
Sean: No.
Ray: Maybe not.
Sean: Maybe not.
Ray: T stands for thirst for industry. Ants work hard and will replace their anthill when
it gets ruined. It means they don't give up and go look for ant welfare. “Somebody
stepped on our anthill. You should build us a new one.” S stands for a source of
insight. Ants store provisions in the summer. When everything is good, everything is
golden and there's lots of provisions, they store them up because they know there's
a lean time coming.
It's like we keep a cash reserve in our company so that when cash flow-- It ebbs and
flows. Sometimes it's high, sometimes it's lower. There's valleys and troughs. We
have a cash reserve. In case we get into a trough, we can just say, “Let's just go
grab that cash reserve and not worry about this.” Ants, go to the ants-
Sean: Go to the ants.
Ray: -you sluggard. Okay, that part's a little insulting.
[laughter]
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But it's the Bible. What am I supposed to do? It's just a metaphor.
Sean: It's only insulting because it's making you face the reality that you might be
lazy.
Ray: Isn't that why most things are insulting?
Sean: Yes.
Ray: Because if you know it’s not true-
Sean: Because it's forcing you to face reality.
Ray: If you know it's not true, it doesn't bother you.
Sean: Yes. Which is why most of society's rules about what's rude are dumb
because they're basically like that's it's rude to point out reality to that person. It's
rude to make that person recognize facts.
Ray: It's not nice-
Sean: It's not nice.
Ray: -to tell the truth.
Sean: I didn't know that niceness took priority over the truth.
Ray: I didn't plan to share this but I realized I wrote something on Facebook that
hardly anybody responded to. I think you'll like it. It's short I'm going to read it to you.
We spend an enormous amount of time and energy evading this reality. We often
don't behave in accordance with actual self. Rather, we behave in accordance with
the apparent self which we construct for the purpose of impressing other people.
What if we cast off the false self and made the courageous decision to be who we
are?
What if we made intentional choice about what we believe and value and then every
day acted as if we really believed and valued it? What could your life be like if you
stopped evading your true potential?
Sean: Nice.
Ray: I knew you'd like it.
Sean: It's good.
Ray: What do you supposed to say? Well, you say that's not so good dad, we
should cut that out of the show."
Sean: That's true, that's how I felt. [chuckles]
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Ray: That's why sometimes it's hard to talk to you but I never am uncomfortable with
thinking you might tell me a lie just to make me feel better.
Sean: That's true, I won't.
Ray: There are people I know that I know I can't count on for their honest opinion.
Sean: Right because they don't want to hurt your feelings.
Ray: They'd rather let me humiliate myself in front of--
Sean: They'd rather participate in your delusion with you than tell you the truth.
Ray: This is one of those rabbit trails that 2% of our audience doesn't like, and now
we know why.
Voice over 4: Now, simple hacks that make life cheaper, easier and faster, Ray's Tip
of the Week.
Ray: Tip of the Week this week comes from the book Rest by I hope I'm going to say
this right, Alex Soojung Kim Pang. The subtitle of the book is, Why You Get More
Done When You Work Less. This is a topic that a lot of people discuss but not very
many people actually study the psychology and the science behind the idea and this
guy does. He says in the front of his book, "For the most of us overwork is the new
normal and rest is an afterthought.
In our busy lives rest is defined as the absence of work, late night TV binges, hours
spent trolling the internet, something to do once we finished everything else on our
to do list. Dismissing rest stifles our ability to think creatively and truly recharge." He
works in Silicon Valley, he posits that, rest is not the opposite of work if they are part
of the same cycle and that without one you can't really enjoy and get to benefit from
the other.
I'll just give you one quote, I'm reading this as part of the LeaderBox program,
Michael Hyatt's monthly reading program. It gets you reading two books a month,
which is pretty awesome, you should sign up for it at leaderbox.com. I do not have
an affiliate link, if I did I would give it to you and I would make millions of dollars and
retire. Anyway, one of my favorite quotes from his books so far is this one, "If your
work is yourself, when you cease to work, you cease to exist." Hello, who are you
after the work? Something to think about.
Voice over 5: Now, our feature presentation.
Ray: Some people call John Carlton the most ripped off copywriter alive and that's
because there was a period of time where everybody's ripping off his one legged
golfer headline. He's the guy who wrote the headline The Amazing Secrets of the
One Legged Golfer, and it was for a course on how to play better golf. The premise
is so obvious, if a one legged golfer shoots a good game of golf, he must be doing
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something right. Or she, could be a one legged lady. Well, that became the biggest
swiped headline in history for a long time.
Other people now call him the most respected writing teacher alive. I don't know if
it's true. I love you John, but I think there may be another guy who might arm wrestle
you for that title. Maybe, I'm just saying. He's pretty respected. The list of well known
marketers who freely reference John Carlton as their primary mentor for writing
sales messages is staggering. People like Frank Kern. There is a long list of people
who learned how to write copy from John Carlton.
As I told you in the first part of the episode, I went to a conference just with the sole
intention of spending $5 000 to buy his swiped files. That doesn't count the airline
tickets, the hotel, the three days, the other stuff I bought while I was there because I
couldn't resist the sales pitches. Listen, here's a tip for you. If you want to sell
something to somebody, sell it to a salesman because salesmen love to be sold.
They do. Let's get into it, my interview with John Carlton.
Ray: Welcome. John.
John: Hi Ray. How are you?
John Carlton
Ray: I am fabulous. I'm so excited to be talking with you. I tell the story when
people ask me how I got started in copywriting -- one of the first things I did
was -- I don't know if you remember this. I went to an [unintelligible 00:00:14]
seminar with the expressed intention of giving you $5000 and that's what I did.
John: Did you owe me your money? [laughter]
Ray: At that time you were offering some kind of $5000. It was everything you have
done up until then-
John: That's right.

Ray: -package. I was going to buy that. I did make the mistake of not telling my wife
before I went that I was going to do that.
John: That's what credit cards are for right?
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Ray: Yes but there's always an aftermath so we don't do that anymore. I went to that
seminar with that intention to do that and I did it. It was one of the best investments I
ever made. You've been called The Most Ripped Off Copywriter on the Web and I
have often wanted to ask you this. Is that something that you -- is that a badge you
wear with pride? Or is it one that you wear with pride and a certain amount of
irritation?
John: Actually there's a lot of irritation that I've never called myself a great
copywriter. I've certainly never called myself The Greatest Living Copywriter Alive.
That was my old pal Gary Halbert’s handle. When I became a guru it was a very
slow process. I wanted to step from behind the scenes which I then most of my
career well-known by the insiders but not very well-known by people outside of our
very tight direct-response community. I want to step forward but I had no claims to
be better than anyone else. I'm really a very shy self-deprecating guy.
I'm an introvert. Gary Halbert pushed me out on the stage. I started speaking more. I
was always on stage I was really doing that but never the center of the stage. I was
always the guy helping help it out or the guy the guest speaker something like that.
Not really stepping out on my own. What I did I was very careful about the handle I
created and the one I really like that I use the most is The Most Respected and
Ripped Off Copywriter Alive. I use that because a lot of people early -- specially early
in the web years of the Arts here people were taking my ads and copying them and
using them for their own purposes. I decided to step in front of that parade and I
encourage them to do that. I even gave a seminar called License to Steal. I told
them, "If you're going to steal my ads and rip them here's how to do it right. Stop
doing it wrong." [laughs] "You're - me off."
We got that going. Yes. That's my handle. I am respected in the industry and I will
take that with glee because that has been -- among writers you never see writers sit
down with other writers Ray. At the bar or something say, "I'm better than you." or
"I'm the best." They just don't do it. We're very shy. We're very conscious of how
karma can bite you in the behind if you start bragging about yourself. The piece
bombs and suddenly you're not the glory boy anymore. Among writers we're very
cognizant of our status among the other writers. We don't lord it over the others and
we're all very friendly and I myself and a lot of other writers have bent over
backwards to help bring rookie writers and other writers up.
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It's been very lonely in the A-list over the decades and now it's crowded. I take
responsibility for bringing a whole lot of those people up into it. I'm very proud of that.
But I never thought I was one of the greatest copywriters. I have certain things that I
do extremely well. My greatest joy has been the simple writing system which was
just taking what is essentially a complex process of using salesmanship and
knowledge about advertising and marketing and working it into sales messages.
That rookie entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs that are struggling or business owners
or writers who want to move up a level can very easily find some formulas about
how to make their writing better. That's been my greatest joy over the years to be
able to share everything I know and do the mentoring behind that.
Not just lay it out in a book but actually get hands on coaching and working with
people. I've dragged a lot of people kicking and screaming into the copywriting world
as freelancers and- or they started their own businesses. I'm very very proud of that.
They've been very, very. respectful of that. That's where the respect part comes. I
just do my job as a copywriter. Not to hog the Mic, Ray, but we belong to this really
rare tribe of scribes. Our ancestors go back to the dawn of time. Literally the dawn of
history. We're the guys that wrote history. Think of all those scribes back there.
Through the majority of the history of humankind. They've been anonymous. They've
been often slaves. They've been very much alone. They've been worked to death.
They weren't able to write what they wanted. They had to write what other people
wanted them to write.
It wasn't until just a couple of hundred years ago that novels were invented and
people started being able to write what they wanted to again. It was done briefly
back in the Greek classic era but for most of the modern Western world writers were
not respected. They were not well-compensated. They were essentially slaves to
whatever person own them. Like artists in a lot of ways. Artists weren't necessarily
able to draw or sculpt or paint whatever they wanted until about the 1500s -- when
was the reformation in the Renaissance. For any writer the best majority writers in
the past if they looked in our lives today -- freelance writers or even just professional
business owners who write. They'd be astonished. "You go write what you want
without fear." You can think what you want. You can write and get all the proceeds
that come in from that. You can control your destiny through writing. That is an
astonishing thing. For writers, we should never lose track of how easily that can be
taken away too.
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Ray: That is well said. We also had a point in history where you can publish
yourself. You've got this fantastic blog and you can write whatever you want
whenever you want at the press of the button-
John: - and with Amazon -- God bless them -- I have two books on Amazon. One
just digital one both digital and in printed. Sold a bunch and it's just great. There was
a classic period back in the early 50s where guys like Hugh Hefner could take what
was it -- $300 or $600. Buy a picture of Marilyn Monroe mostly undressed and start a
publication like Playboy. There were a lot of magazines like that out there but that
was the high time. He was able to get it printed, get it distributed and he never knew
if he's going to have a second issue or not. The first issues was not number one. It
was just an issue. Then it wasn't until a couple of years into it that he started getting
ahead of the game and realized he had a little publishing juggernaut going.
Back then in the 50s was the time when you could self-publish magazines and there
was a lot of opportunities open to writers that hadn't been opened before. Then it
started to close up in the 60s again. The consolidation of the book publishers -- do
you remember Grove Press by any chance? -- it wasn't a subsidiary of anybody but
they took all the banished and banned and censored authors like Henry Miller some
of the beat poets. They had a history in the 50s and 60s of publishing dangerous
books essentially. We forget that there were times where there was a lot of
censorship even in the United States.
That time of freedom where people were stepping out and it was important to get
books out. Bookstores started thriving in the 50s and of course the used bookstores
started thriving in the 60s and 70s. That's all kind of going by the wayside because
of Amazon. But Amazon has restored that. You can publish yourself. You can publish
your own book. You can get it done in a weekend. Once you get the hang of it it's so
easy. I've beaten up people for years about getting that first book written. As a
businessman or as a professional your first book is your calling card. It's the
headline you want. The people only need to read the headline and a couple of the
blurbs on the back by people. That's all they need.
"Oh. He's got a book." You're no longer Joe Blow, a guy, a struggling writer. You're
Joe Blow author of How to Get a Million Dollars in Six Days by Trimming Trees --
endorsed by the Agricultural Society of America -- things like that. I used to tell
people to do that back when it was tough to do. Now that it's easy to do it's just
opened up a whole new world for writers. We own the world right now. We haven't
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realized it and we haven't done anything with it. Writers have never been more
powerful than they are today.
Ray: I feel like I'm at a revival meeting for writing. [laughs] This is awesome. I don't
know if you know Don Miller but he's the StoryBrand guy and he's a big Christian
author in New York Times best selling author of all things. A couple of books of what
some people call post-modern Christian essays. Now if there's anything least likely
to be as bestseller it's got to be that. He's had some huge success and I was with
him in Nashville not long ago and he says, "So you're a copywriter?" I said, "Yes."
and he said, "I just read the greatest book." and I said "What is it?" he said "It's The
Entrepreneurs Guide to Getting Your -Together.”
John: Oh really.
Ray: “Do you know this guy?” And I started laughing and I said, “Yes, I just never
would have guessed he’d be the guy that you would be reading.” He said, “Oh it’s
great.” So he loved your book. It goes to show because of Amazon, just what you
were saying, we can be distributed worldwide, you never know who’s going to get a
hold of your book. A lot of people decry this and they say, “Well, there’s a lot of crap
books.” Well, guess what nobody will buy them, a few people will, they’ll write some
bad reviews and that will be the end of that. But books like yours and you’ve got that
one and you’ve got the Simple Success Secrets, I think is the other one right?
John: Yes.

Ray: Yes so-

John: Simple Success Secrets No One Told You About.
Ray: Told you about, yes.

John: I think is the book title.
Ray: Anybody watching this or listening should get both of those by the way, just get
them, don’t ask questions, get them and read them. But you really were one of the
first people to recommend that idea of writing a book as your calling card. Everybody
says it now. I was just thinking about this yesterday because I was looking through a
local newspaper and there was a real estate ad and there was a local real estate
broker who, in the bottom of his useless full page ad with a bunch of pictures of
listings like every realtor does, he did have a picture of himself holding his book,
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Cash Flow Forever or something like that. I’m like, “Man this message, this idea of
direct response marketing has spread so far that even the local realtors are getting
it.” I don’t know if they know where it came from or not but it’s powerful and you and
Halbert were at the forefront of that. What were those early days like with Halbert?
John: Man that was a different world. How far back do you go Ray? Do you go back
to direct mail?
Ray: I did some direct mail. I think I’m a little bit younger than you so I missed out. I
tell people I missed out on The Beatles and the Psychedelic Movement and a few
things and I just came in just after that. But we did a lot of direct mail in the radio
business for our clients or for the stations, so I remember what it was like. You spent
a ton of money and prayed that it worked.
John: I was a direct mail direct response copywriter. A lot of people used to get
confused about that but direct mail is a part of direct response. Direct response is
the umbrella of writing to create an action to get some response. I got very, very
good at writing, what we called, letters and I was working for the big publishers back
east. Of course the story I tell is that I was on a track to be one of the initial writers to
earn a million dollars writing for these guys back east. We weren’t doing it yet but I
was mentoring under guys like Jim Rutz who was one of the first to do it, he invented
what’s called the Magalog.
When I was writing with him we were still doing letters, close envelopes, teaser
copies on the outside, 8 to 24 page letters plus brochures plus response devices
and all those stuff. We could get these huge packages that we were doing. That was
for the financial field, I was writing for a number of different markets. Jim Rutz
invented the Magalog, which looks like a magazine but when you go through it it’s
really just a very, very long direct response letter.
He also pioneered getting paid as a writer for per piece mail or a royalty, that was
not a very common thing. Back when I started out there they would give you some
money you would write the piece, they’d call you later saying, “It sold millions, it was
great.” You go, “Okay that’s great, can you give me another job?” You got nothing
else from that.
Ray: Ouch.

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