INTERVIEWS OF WITNESSES BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE EVENTS SURROUNDING THE 2012 TERRORIST ATTACK IN BENGHAZI - VOLUME 8

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by  Select Committee on the Events Surrounding the 2012 Terrorist Attack in Benghazi

INTERVIEWS OF WITNESSES
BEFORETHE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON
THE EVENTS SURROUNDING
THE 2012 TERRORIST
ATTACK IN BENGHAZI
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, 2012–2016
VOLUME 8 OF 11
Printed for the use of the Select Committee on the Events Surrounding the
2012 Terrorist Attack in Benghazi
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HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON BENGHAZI
TREY GOWDY, South Carolina, Chairman
LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia ELIJAH CUMMINGS, Maryland
JIM JORDAN, Ohio Ranking Minority Member
PETER ROSKAM, Illinois ADAM SMITH, Washington
MIKE POMPEO, Kansas ADAM SCHIFF, California
MARTHA ROBY, Alabama LINDA SA´NCHEZ, California
SUSAN BROOKS, Indiana TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
PROFESSIONAL STAFF
PHILIP G. KIKO, Staff Director and General Counsel
SUSANNE SACHSMAN GROOMS, Minority Staff Director
(II)
CONTENTS
Page
InterviewofCharleneLamb ................................................................................... 1
InterviewofSecretaryLeonPanetta ..................................................................... 293
InterviewofBenjaminFishman ............................................................................. 561
InterviewofJeremyBash ....................................................................................... 637
InterviewofBenRhodes ......................................................................................... 859
InterviewofAmbassadorSusanRice ..................................................................... 1069
(III)

INTERVIEW OF
CHARLENE RAE LAMB
BEFORETHE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON BENGHAZI
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONEHUNDREDFOURTEENTHCONGRESS
SECONDSESSION
HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, JANUARY 7, 2016
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APPEARANCES
FOR THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON BENGHAZI
PHILIP G. KIKO, Staff Director and General Counsel
SHARON JACKSON, Deputy Chief Counsel
CRAIG MISSAKIAN, Deputy Chief Counsel
CARLTON DAVIS, Investigator
SHERIA CLARKE, Counsel
KIM BETZ, Member Outreach Liaison and Counsel
SUSANNE SACHSMAN GROOMS, Minority Staff Director/General Counsel
HEATHER SAWYER, Minority Chief Counsel
PETER KENNY, Minority Senior Counsel
DANIEL REBNORD, Minority Professional Staff
ERIN O’BRIEN, Minority Detailee
FOR THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
AUSTIN EVERS, Senior Advisor
ERIC SNYDER, Senior Counsel
ALISON WELCHER, Attorney-Adviser
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Ms. Betz. Good morning.
Ms. Lamb. Good morning.
Ms. Betz. This is a transcribed interview of Charlene Lamb
conducted by the House Select Committee on Benghazi. This interview
isbeingconductedvoluntarilyaspartofthecommittee'sinvestigation
into the attacks on the U.S. diplomatic facilities in Benghazi, Libya,
and related matters, pursuant to House Resolution 567 of the 113th
Congress and House Resolution 5 of the 114th Congress.
Would the witness please state her name for the record?
Ms. Lamb. Charlene Rae Lamb.
Ms. Betz. The committee appreciates your appearance at this
interview today. Good morning. My name is Kim Betz, as I mentioned,
with the committee's majority staff. And I'd also like to take this
opportunity for everybody to introduce themselves again around the
table and in the room.
Ms. Lamb. Okay.
Ms. Jackson. Sharon Jackson with the majority staff.
Ms. Sachsman Grooms. I'm Susanne Sachsman Grooms with the
minority staff.
Ms. Sawyer. Heather Sawyer with the minority.
Mr. Kenny. Peter Kenny with the minority staff.
Ms. O'Brien. Erin O'Brien, minority.
Mr. Rebnord. Dan Rebnord with the minority staff.
Ms. Welcher. Alison Welcher, State Department.
Mr. Snyder. Eric Snyder, State Department.
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Mr. Missakian. Craig Missakian, majority staff.
Ms. Clarke. Sheria Clarke, majority staff.
Mr. Davis. I'm Carlton Davis.
Mr. Kiko. Phil Kiko with the committee.
Ms. Betz. Before we begin, I'd like to go over some of theground
rules and explain how the interview will work today. Generally the
way that we ask questions is that a member from the majority will ask
questions first for up to an hour and then the minority will have an
opportunitytoaskquestionsforanequalperiodoftimeiftheychoose.
Questions may only be asked by a member of the committee or a
designated staff. It has been our practice to rotate back and forth
1 hour per side until all of the questions are asked and then the
interview will be over.
UnlikeatestimonyoradepositioninFederalcourt,thecommittee
format is not bound by the rules of evidence. The witness or their
counsel may raise objections for privilege, subject to review by the
chairman of the committee. If these objections cannot be resolved in
the interview, the witness can be required to return for a deposition
or hearing.
Members and staff of the committee, however, are not permitted
to raise objections when the other side is asking questions. This has
not been an issue we've encountered in the past, but I wanted to make
sure that you were clear on the process.
This session will be unclassified. If any question calls for a
classified answer, please let us know, and we'll figure out a way to
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resolve it.
You are welcome to confer with your counsel, and you have State
Department counsel with you, at any time throughout the interview, but
if you need something to be clarified, we ask that you ask us to clarify
it, and then if you need to discuss anything with your counsel, we will
go off the record and stop the clock to provide you with that
opportunity.
We'd like to take a break whenever it's convenient for you. This
can be after every hour of questioning, after every couple of rounds,
whatever you prefer. During a round of questioning, if you need
anything, glass of water, use the facilities, to confer with your
counsel, please let us know, and we'll go off the record and stop the
clock. We want to make this as easy as possible for you.
Ms. Lamb. Okay.
Ms.Betz. Andasyoucansee,wehaveanofficialreportertaking
down everything you say to make a written record, so we ask that you
give a verbal response to all the questions, yes or no, as opposed to
nods of the head.
I'm going to ask the reporter to please feel free to jump in in
case you do respond nonverbally. Do you understand that?
Ms. Lamb. Yes.
Ms. Betz. Just for the record, we're joined by Congressman
Westmoreland from Georgia.
So continuing on, we should both try not to talk over each other
so it's easier to get a clear record. We want you to answer our
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questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible, so we will
take our time and repeat or clarify our questions if necessary. If
you have any questions or if you don't understand any of our questions,
please let us know, and we'll be happy to clarify it or repeat it if
necessary.
If you honestly don't know the answer to a question or do not
remember, it's best not to guess. Please give us your best
recollection, and if there are things that you do not know or can't
remember,justsaysoandletusknowwho,tothebestofyourknowledge,
may be able to provide a more complete answer to that question.
You are required to answer questions from Congress truthfully.
Do you understand that?
Ms. Lamb. Yes.
Ms. Betz. This also applies to questions posed by congressional
staff in an interview. Do you understand this?
Ms. Lamb. Yes.
Ms. Betz. Witnesses that knowingly provide false testimony
could be subject to criminal prosecution for perjury or making false
statements. Do you understand this?
Ms. Lamb. Yes.
Ms. Betz. Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful
answers to today's questions?
Ms. Lamb. No.
Ms. Betz. Okay. That's the end of my preamble.
Does the minority have anything that they would like to add?