Case Study 43 - Transcript - The response of Catholic Church authorities in the Maitland

125 Pages·2016·0.92 MB·English

ROYAL COMMISSION INTO INSTITUTIONAL
RESPONSES TO CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE
Public Hearing - Case Study C43
(Day C168)
Newcastle Court House,
343 Hunter Street, Newcastle
Court Room 6.1
On Monday, 5 September 2016 at 10.04am
Before:
The Chair: Justice Peter McClellan AM
Commissioner: Mr Robert Atkinson AO APM
Commissioner: Mr Andrew Murray
Counsel Assisting: Mr Stephen Free
Ms Stacey Hahn
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1 MR FREE: Your Honour, the first witness is Father William
2 Burston.
3
4 MR CHIU: Your Honour and Commissioners, while that is
5 happening, could I announce my appearance? My name is Chiu
6 and I appear for the survivors [CNY], [CNQ], [CNV], [CNR],
7 [CQT] and also Mrs Audrey Nash. I understand leave has
8 previously been granted. One other matter, if I may -
9 Mr [CNY] no longer requires his pseudonym to be in place
10 and wishes to withdraw it.
11
12 THE CHAIR: Very well.
13
14 MR FREE: There is no issue.
15
16 THE CHAIR: All right. We will make sure that happens.
17
18 <WILLIAM JOHN BURSTON, sworn: [10.06am]
19
20 <EXAMINATION BY MR FREE:
21
22 MR FREE: Q. Father, can you state your full name,
23 please?
24 A. William John Burston.
25
26 Q. You were born in 1935?
27 A. Yes.
28
29 Q. And in 1963, Father, you were incardinated as a priest
30 in the Maitland-Newcastle Diocese?
31 A. Yes.
32
33 Q. You obtained a degree and Masters in Psychology from
34 The University College, Dublin; is that right?
35 A. Yes.
36
37 Q. You then did work as a priest in the
38 Maitland-Newcastle Diocese?
39 A. Yes.
40
41 Q. Was all your work as a priest in Maitland-Newcastle?
42 A. Yes.
43
44 Q. Just a couple of appointments I wish to highlight,
45 Father, just to understand where you were at relevant
46 times. You were an assistant priest in Maitland from 1972
47 to 1974?
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1 A. Sorry, 1971, in Maitland.
2
3 Q. 1971?
4 A. Yes.
5
6 Q. As an assistant priest?
7 A. Yes.
8
9 Q. And you said there until 1974?
10 A. 1972, to Waratah.
11
12 Q. You moved to Hamilton at some point to be the
13 assistant priest to Father Cahill?
14 A. Yes, late 1974, I think, yes.
15
16 Q. And you stayed in Hamilton for the next four years or
17 so?
18 A. Yes.
19
20 Q. From 1975, Father, you served as the director of what
21 was first called the Catholic Welfare Bureau?
22 A. Yes.
23
24 Q. And that's the body that later became Centacare; is
25 that right?
26 A. Yes.
27
28 Q. And you stayed in that role as director for about
29 20 years?
30 A. Until the end of 1995.
31
32 Q. From 1996 you served as the Vicar General for the
33 Diocese?
34 A. Yes.
35
36 Q. That was for about five years?
37 A. Five years, yes.
38
39 Q. You then served in some other posts before retiring as
40 a priest in 2015?
41 A. Yes.
42
43 Q. I want to start, father, by asking you some questions
44 about Father Vince Ryan?
45 A. Yes.
46
47 Q. You were at college with Father Ryan, firstly, in
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1 Australia; is that right?
2 A. Yes.
3
4 Q. Was that in the seminary?
5 A. Yes.
6
7 Q. And you later, also, studied at the same time in Rome?
8 A. Yes.
9
10 Q. You were both priests together in the
11 Maitland-Newcastle Diocese after you returned from
12 overseas?
13 A. Yes.
14
15 Q. What was the nature of your personal association with
16 Father Ryan?
17 A. We were friends, but not bosom companions, is probably
18 the best way I can describe it.
19
20 Q. You had regular contact with each other?
21 A. Not in the sense of regularly scheduled but we would
22 meet, yes, on occasions, yes.
23
24 Q. Some years down the track, Father, after Vince Ryan
25 was arrested, in October of 1995, you provided him with
26 some assistance as a support person; is that right?
27 A. Not necessarily as a support person. I went to Taree
28 to bring him down, but not - I wasn't officially a support
29 person. I think somebody else was, but it wasn't me.
30
31 Q. When you say you went to Taree to bring him down, that
32 was on the occasion he was arrested; is that right?
33 A. Yes.
34
35 Q. Father, in 1996 an independent review was conducted in
36 relation to the handling of the Father Ryan incidents in
37 the Diocese. That was a review conducted by
38 Elizabeth Seysener and Vivienne Llewellyn. Are you
39 familiar with that?
40 A. I am.
41
42 Q. Were you Vicar General at the time that was done?
43 A. Yes.
44
45 Q. Did you have any involvement in setting up the review?
46 A. No.
47
.05/09/2016 (C168) C17876 W J BURSTON (Mr Free)
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1 Q. Were you familiar with Ms Llewellyn and Miss Seysener?
2 A. Yes.
3
4 Q. What was your connection with them?
5 A. Ms Llewellyn had worked with me at Centacare, as it
6 became known, and was then the director after me.
7
8 Q. She took over as the director of Centacare from 1995;
9 is that right?
10 A. The beginning of 1996, yes.
11
12 Q. And Ms Seyesner, had you had some association with
13 her?
14 A. I knew her but I hadn't had much association with her.
15
16 Q. Do you remember speaking to one or both of them for
17 the purposes of the review that they were conducting?
18 A. I don't remember accurately speaking to them, but they
19 did speak with me, yes. I don't remember the occasion.
20
21 Q. Can I just show you a reference in the report, please.
22 Can we have tab 70 of the Ryan tender bundle. Father, is
23 it easier for you to look on the screen or would you like
24 a hard copy?
25 A. The screen is okay, thank you, yes.
26
27 Q. You will see there that this is the report that was
28 prepared by the independent reviewers. Did you receive
29 a copy of it when they produced it?
30 A. I'm sure I did, yes.
31
32 Q. Was it distributed generally in the Diocese?
33 A. I don't think so, but that I'm not sure.
34
35 Q. This was in November 1996, Father, just to remind you
36 of the timing. If we can go over, please, to the page at
37 the top, which is 0088, and if we can just zoom in, please,
38 to the top of the page. Thank you.
39 A. Yes.
40
41 Q. Just to give you the context, Father, the report
42 considers, you might recall, particular incidents
43 in December of 1975 when Father Ryan was the subject of
44 reports that he had been abusing altar boys and that led to
45 him going to Melbourne. The report here talks about the
46 events of 1975, that's what it is referring to?
47 A. Right, yes.
.05/09/2016 (C168) C17877 W J BURSTON (Mr Free)
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1
2 Q. The report says:
3
4 Following the events of 1975 there was
5 a small group, who were aware, in varying
6 degrees, of the nature of the disclosures
7 relating to Fr Ryan. This included
8 a priest who was a trained psychologist and
9 had a continued association with Fr Ryan.
10
11 Just pausing there, Father, Ms Seyesner has said in a
12 statement to the Royal Commission that that is a reference
13 to you. Just coming back to the report, the report says:
14
15 On a few occasions he wondered whether
16 further inappropriate activity was
17 occurring but had no clear evidence.
18
19 Just stopping there, do you remember conveying to either
20 Ms Llewellyn or Ms Seyesner that you had wondered, after
21 1975, whether further inappropriate activity was occurring?
22 A. I probably did, yes. I don't recall immediately the
23 interview with them, but I'm sure I would have said that,
24 yes.
25
26 Q. So coming back to the reason why you had that view,
27 what had caused you to wonder whether further inappropriate
28 activity was occurring?
29 A. I saw Father Ryan and one - sorry, [CNF].
30
31 Q. Thank you, yes.
32 A. He was - they were chatting together when I was over
33 at Cessnock. There may have been others present. And
34 [CNF] was tossing stones at Father Ryan's crotch, which
35 struck me as a bit more familiar than I would have allowed,
36 for example, and it was things like that that were not
37 overtly sexual or obvious, but just puzzling to me,
38 I suppose is the - and that's the only incident that comes
39 to mind when I see that evidence, yes.
40
41 Q. Can I just go back a step. Were you aware,
42 in December 1975, or thereabouts, of the incidents which
43 led to Father Ryan being sent to Melbourne?
44 A. 1975? No.
45
46 Q. Did you know that he had been sent to Melbourne?
47 A. I knew that he had been sent. Yes, Monsignor Cotter
.05/09/2016 (C168) C17878 W J BURSTON (Mr Free)
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1 told me that, yes.
2
3 Q. Did Monsignor Cotter or anyone else tell you why he
4 had been sent to Melbourne?
5 A. There was a complaint about inappropriate behaviour
6 with boys, but that's as much as Monsignor Cotter told me.
7
8 Q. Do you remember the context in which he told you that?
9 A. No, I don't remember the context. It certainly wasn't
10 where he would have summoned me, but I don't remember the
11 context apart from that.
12
13 Q. Did anyone, apart from Monsignor Cotter, talk to you
14 about what had led to him - that is, what had led to
15 Father Ryan - being sent to Melbourne?
16 A. No.
17
18 Q. Did you ever speak to Father Ryan about it - and I'm
19 not talking here about the 1990s when he was arrested; I'm
20 talking about before the 1990s. Did you ever talk to
21 Father Ryan about why he had been sent to Melbourne?
22 A. No.
23
24 Q. What was your own reaction when you were told by
25 Monsignor Cotter that there had been some inappropriate
26 conduct with boys?
27 A. Puzzled, shocked, but no - Monsignor Cotter had given
28 me no specific details, so more puzzled, I suppose, than
29 shocked by it, but both were there.
30
31 Q. You weren't curious enough to ask Father Ryan about
32 it, though?
33 A. I wasn't close enough, friendly enough, I don't think,
34 to ask him about it, no.
35
36 Q. So just coming back to the question I asked you about
37 what had caused you to wonder whether further inappropriate
38 activity was occurring - you have described the stone
39 throwing with [CNF]?
40 A. Yes.
41
42 Q. But I think you said something along the lines of
43 "other things like that". Are there other occasions that
44 you can think of that caused you to wonder?
45 A. No, not at the moment, no.
46
47 Q. The report goes on to say that in about 1992 there was
.05/09/2016 (C168) C17879 W J BURSTON (Mr Free)
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1 a [REDACTED] and the way Father Ryan responded to that news
2 indicated to you that something might be amiss in his
3 relationship with the young man. Is that, again,
4 a reference to you - that you had some concerns because of
5 the way Father Ryan reacted to this [REDACTED] that
6 occurred?
7 A. "Some concerns" may be putting it too strongly. It
8 was an indication that there was a strong relationship,
9 a bond between them, but nothing more suspicious than that.
10
11 Q. The report here suggests that it had indicated to you
12 that something might be amiss in his relationship; is that
13 a fair description?
14 A. Yes, yes, yes.
15
16 Q. Amiss in what sense?
17 A. Well, it didn't strike me as anything terribly
18 serious. There was, you know, an unusual reaction, if you
19 like, but not terribly serious - seriously puzzling, sorry.
20
21 Q. Did you speak to anyone else about either what you had
22 observed with the stone throwing, which had struck you as
23 unusual, or the way Father Ryan responded to this
24 [REDACTED]?
25 A. No. No.
26
27 Q. Is it the case that the conversation you had for the
28 people who were preparing this review was the first time
29 you spoke to anyone about those matters?
30 A. I think so, yes.
31
32 Q. Father, can I ask you some questions in relation to
33 the Marist Brothers. When did you first become aware of
34 any suspicions or concerns about inappropriate behaviour of
35 a sexual nature by Marist Brothers at Hamilton?
36
37 MR McMAHON: I object to this question, if I might have
38 a moment with my friend. There is an issue we need to
39 discuss.
40
41 MR FREE: I will rephrase the question. I think
42 I understand what my friend is alluding to.
43
44 Q. Did you receive a complaint or a report from a boy at
45 one point, Father, that there had been an incident
46 involving him and a Marist Brother at the Bar Beach
47 Surf Club?
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1 A. No.
2
3 Q. You don't have any recollection of that?
4 A. No.
5
6 Q. What about a report by a boy of an incident involving
7 a Marist Brother at a father-son camp?
8 A. No. No.
9
10 Q. Father, at one point in the 1990s, Brother Dominic was
11 named as the new principal of the Francis Xavier High
12 School. Do you remember that?
13 A. Not all that well, no.
14
15 Q. Do you remember him being announced as the principal
16 but then the announcement being effectively retracted and
17 someone else being appointed as the principal?
18 A. I heard a - that's - I heard a report about that, but
19 I don't remember the incident, no.
20
21 Q. Did you hear a report about why there had been
22 a change of heart?
23 A. The only thing I can recall is that some of the
24 former, his former students objected, but that's all I know
25 of that, yes.
26
27 Q. Do you know why they had objected?
28 A. No. More precisely, no. No.
29
30 Q. Are there any other occasions you can think of where
31 the announcement of a principal of the high school was
32 effectively abandoned because of objections by former
33 students?
34 A. No, I can't, no.
35
36 Q. So that was unique?
37 A. Unique as far as my memory is concerned, yes, but
38 whether it happened before or not, I don't know.
39
40 Q. But you don't know the reasons why objection was
41 taken?
42 A. There were suspicions that I heard related, but that's
43 all, you know.
44
45 Q. Suspicions of what, Father?
46 A. Inappropriate behaviour, mmm.
47
.05/09/2016 (C168) C17881 W J BURSTON (Mr Free)
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1 Q. How did you know about those suspicions?
2 A. Word of mouth. It wasn't - you know. Somebody -
3 I have no immediate recollection of who to me, when, and
4 what they told me, but I was surprised that it was -
5 Brother Dominic was the one that was mentioned.
6
7 Q. So were you surprised because you hadn't heard any
8 previous reports of that kind about Brother Dominic?
9 A. Yes, mmm.
10
11 Q. Father, can I ask you about the death of Andrew Nash.
12 Do you remember Andrew Nash?
13 A. I do, yes.
14
15 Q. He was a young student, a 13-year-old student in
16 year 7, I believe; is that right?
17 A. As far as I recall, yes.
18
19 Q. He died in October 1974; is that right, Father?
20 A. I think so, yes. I think it was October, yes.
21
22 Q. Now, what was your role at that time?
23 A. I was - had newly arrived at Hamilton as assistant
24 priest and received a phone call about Andrew and went
25 around to the house to anoint him that evening.
26
27 Q. What does anointing mean in this context?
28 A. It is a Church ritual for somebody who has died, or
29 who - you know, or who was seriously ill and dying, so it
30 is concerned with that, anointing, yes.
31
32 Q. Is that the same as the last rites, Father?
33 A. The last rites, yes.
34
35 Q. Who did you receive the call from?
36 A. I don't remember precisely, probably the ambulance,
37 but I don't recall immediately.
38
39 Q. Is there a reason why Father Cahill didn't do it?
40 A. He was away - he was away from the parish, doing some
41 work in Taree that evening.
42
43 Q. Who else was at the house when you attended, Father?
44 A. The mother, Audrey, the brother --
45
46 Q. I think, Father, I'm sorry, just stop there, if you
47 would.
.05/09/2016 (C168) C17882 W J BURSTON (Mr Free)
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