Allan W. Anderson July 17, 2009 interviewed by Susan Resnik for San Diego State University 102 ...

34 Pages·2010·0.08 MB·English

AllanW.Anderson
July17,2009
interviewedbySusanResnik
forSanDiegoStateUniversity
102minutes ofrecordingtotal
SUSANRESNIK: Todayis FridayJuly17,2009. This is SusanResnik. Todaywe’reat
San DiegoState UniversitytointerviewDr.Allan W.Anderson. This interview
is fundedbytheJohnandJaneAdams mini-grant forthehumanities.
Dr.Anderson, professor emeritus ofreligious studies, [whose] academic
backgroundincludes philosophy,comparativereligionandliterature,studiedat
ColumbiaUniversity. Hehas taught philosophyandreligionfortwenty-three
years at SanDiegoState University, andbeginningin1969,hewas involvedin
theestablishment ofthe Department ofReligious Studies. In1970,hewas
awardedtheCaliforniaStateDistinguished TeacherAward. In1975,between
Januaryand April,heconducted18one-hourdialogs withJ.Krishnamurti
entitled,“AWhollyDifferent Way.” ProfessorAnderson is ascholar,ateacher,
andapoet. Andtoquote somethingIread,it says,“Accomplishedacademically,
his soul is that ofapoet,his penandmindarehappiest inverse.”1
I’dliketosaygoodmorningto you,andalso to yourcolleagues Mary
HicklinandBruceHanson. Goodmorning,Dr.Anderson.
ALLANW.ANDERSON: Goodmorning, Dr.Resnik.
SR: Let’s start out bygoingright toSanDiegoStateUniversity,andthenwe cango
on yourjourney. This is youroral historyand yourjourney,and you can go
backwards, forwards, wherever youwant totakeus. Howdid youhappento
cometo teach at SanDiegoStateUniversity? (asiderespellingofpropernouns)
1Source?
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page1
AWA: Iwas invitedtoapply,and Iacceptedtheinvitation. Iwas livinginNewYorkat
thetime,just across thestreet from ColumbiaUniversity.
SR: Iknowit well. What inspired you tosay,“Okay, I’ll goout west”?
AWA: IwantedtocometoCalifornia.
SR: When youcamehere,what did youdiscoverinthis setting? Also, ofcourse,what
yeararewetalkingabout now?
AWA: Well,let’s see, Icame herein’62.
SR: Okay,so it was thesixties, whichwas, of course, aninterestingtime,andan
interestingtimeinCaliforniainparticular, Iwouldthink. Soapparentlythat
appealedto you,tocome toCalifornia.
AWA: It reminds meoftheChinesebest wishes, “Mayyouliveininterestingtimes.”
SR: Ah yes. Andclearlyyou have,andweall are. Sowhen youcamehere,who
interviewed you,what happened?
AWA: Idon’t recall beinginterviewedoncominghere. What happened? Nothing
dramatic—Ijust arrived.
SR: And youbegantoteachinthePhilosophyDepartment?
AWA: Yes.
SR: Okay. And youbrought with you,from what Iunderstandinreadingabout your
academicbackgroundup tothat point,acombinationofliteratureandphilosophy
andreligionandwhateverelse youbring. Andso did youenjoyteachinghere
when youstartedout?
AWA: I’vealways enjoyedteaching.
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page2
SR: Would youliketotalkalittlebit about how youviewtheroleofateacher? I
knowthat youtouchedonthis with yourfourthdialogwithKrishnamurti. He
touchedonit,and youkindofshapedwhat hewas sayingabout the roleof the
teacherandthestudent. Would youliketotalkalittleabout that?
AWA: Yes, Ihavearatherstrongconvictionthat teaching,inthestrict sense,doesn’t
reallycometopass unless thestudent andtheteacheroperatetogether. The
virtual classical role, wheretheteachertalks—and unfortunatelymanytimes
down—toastudent,is not,strictlyspeaking,teaching. It’s just aspecies of
announcing.
SR: Did youstart toteachin anydifferent waythanotherpeoplewereteachinghere,
do youknow?
AWA: Well, Ineverattended anyoftheirclasses, so there’s nowaythat Icould
compare.
SR: But apparentlyyoumust havebeendoingsomethingtoreceivetheOutstanding
TeacherAward. And Ialso was readingcomments at thetributeto you,from
George Gross andother professors, talkingabout howreallyspecial youhave
beenas ateacher andas acolleague—andinspiring. Sotell meabout the
department,because you must…. Whenit started,it was 1969,and youmust
havenurturedit incertainways.
AWA: No,it reallystartedfrom scratch. It hadn’t beenpreset up. Howit came about
was simplythat it seemedtosomeofus inthePhilosophyDepartment that it
would behelpful totheuniversity’s program as a whole,tohaveanother
department calledtheDepartment ofReligious Studies.
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page3
SR: Andbythe Department ofReligious Studies, can youelaborate alittlemore?
Comparativereligions? Iknow I’veheard referencetotheEasternreligions that
you’reso involvedwith. Tell mealittlebit moreabout it,because Ithinkthat it
maybedifferent thanotherdepartments ofreligious studies, from what Irecall
hearing.
AWA: Really? I’m veryinterestedtohearthat.
SR: Or yourownapproachtoreligious studies, versus thehistorical approach.
AWA: Well,it seems tomethatquestiongoes totheheart ofwhat underlies the activity
ofreligious studies. Ithinkwhat underlies it is essentiallyselfinquiry.
SR: Andwhat underlies it is theessenceofwhat this department reallywas about,in
otherwords.
AWA: It was myhope.
SR: Did youfeel prettyhappyabout the wayit was received? Orthestudents—
clearlyyou’vehadstudents whofeel theybenefitedverymuch from this
approach.
AWA: Well,let’s ask them! Theywereboththere.
SR: As Imentioned,we are welcomingbothMaryandBruce. Andthis could bea
littleokay.
AWA: (chuckles) That’s wonderful.
BRUCEHANSON: Well,Allan,whydon’t you elaboratealittlebit inthewayyou
approachedteaching. Youmentionedthat ifthere wasn’t aspecial relation
between you andthestudent,then youdidn’t believeactual teachingwas
occurring. At othertimes you’vementionedthat youneverlecturedfrom notes.
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page4
That’s thecase. But healso has mentionedhenevertaught what hehadn’t
undergone,what hehadn’t experienced. Whydon’t youtalkalittleabout that? I
thinkthat wouldbeinteresting.
AWA: Well, I’m awfullyglad Brucementionedwhat he has just pointedtoinhislast
fewremarks. Ialways felt that when youwalkintotheclassroom as ateacher,
youhaveanobligationto avoidsimplyannouncing. And youhaveanobligation
tosensetheconditionof theroom. Eachtime you walkin,it’s atmospherically
different, and youhadbettermeet that. Somanytimes Iwouldhaveanotionof
what Ithought wouldbe timely,andas soon as Igot insidetheroom, Iknewit
wasn’t. Youknowhow walls are atmospheric. (SR: Uh-huh.) Soonthespot, I
hadtobeginfrom scratch.
SR: Well,that’s averyinterestingapproach,andthat certainlyleads to creativityin
theclassroom,ratherthanjust somethingthat’s previouslyestablished. But the
context ofthetimeinwhich youwere doingthis was the1960s, andthere was a
lot ofchange. Did youfeel that that inanywayaffectedthetopics that youwere
talkingabout? Iknow youwerediscussingscriptures andtheword. Iwonder
what kindofstudents camein,what was it like?
AWA: Well,thosewereinterestingdays. (chuckles)
SR: Yes.
AWA: Students always over-subscribedtomyclasses. In thosedays, manyofthem
would comeinandtest whethertheywantedtosignuptothis class ornot. Sothe
room was overfull,andtheywouldbesittingdownonthefloor,withtheir feet in
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page5
myface. (laughter) It was astrangetime. Bruce andMarywouldbe able totell
youmore about it than Iwould,becausetheyare closertothat generation.
SR: Well, Iwas thinkingtoday, as Iwalked across the campus here,onmywayto
meet you,that Inoticedall thestudents walkingaroundinshorts, andthinking
this is also aninterestingtime,becausewecertainlydidn’t dothat. (laughter)
BH: Allan, youmight expandalittlebit onhow youfelt that thepreparedness of the
student changedaroundthemidsixties, from when youfirst cameoncampus to
aroundthat middecadepoint.
AWA: Yes. Youmean about ’65?
BH: Right.
AWA: Iwas in Indiain’65, and readthenews that things hadblownup. It rather
shockedme,because Ihadneverbeeninanenvironment ofthat order. But I
tried,when Igot backfrom India,tofindmywayas mercifullyas Icouldinthis
newage—becauseeverybodylookeduponit as a newage. It was not an easy
time. (SR: No.) And Imust havebeenthought a bit ofapettytyrant,becauseas
bothMaryand Brucewill remember, Itook afairlyhardlinewithrespect tothe
responsibilityofthestudent tostudy. And I’vealways kept inmindSaint Paul’s
admonition—Ithinkit must havebeeninthis case toTimothy—“Bewareofthose
whoare always seekingtolearn,but areincapable ofbecomingtaught.” (laughs)
Itriedtobringhometomystudents duringthat virtual catastrophictime, what we
refertohistoricallyas the sixties, Itriedtohelpthe students seetheir
responsibilityforrespect forthesubject that theywerestudying. Ihaveno idea
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page6
howmuch Isucceeded,ifat all,but Maryand Brucemight beabletoshow some
light onthat,becausetheystudiedwithme.
BH: Well,this interviewisn’t ofus, so we’retryingtoget youtoexpandalittleonthe
wayyoupresented,because you were,as yousay, youwoulddemandacertain
respect from thestudent tothesubject,acertainseriousness toit. But Ithink you
couldspeakalittlebit morein yourownapproachtoscripture. Maybe youcould
relatethat lunch youhad withthevarious pastors andall here,and yourreaction.
AWA: Yes. I’m sure you’ll find this interesting.
SR: Good.
AWA: In alunchthat Ihadwiththecampus pastors, it occurredtomethat it might be
timelytoask them afundamental question. Iaskedthem about theincarnation.
And Iquotedthefirst chapterofSaint John’s gospel. Iaskedthem whetherthey
believedit. Theydidn’t sayaword. Nowthese were campus pastors. Ofcourse
it was, Isuppose,not the most tactful ofquestions, but Iwantedtoknowwhat
was goingon. Well, Ifoundout inahurry,didn’t I?
SR: Yes.
AWA: Here wehavepastors whoserelationtowhat it is that theyarepreachingis pretty
wobbly! Andwhat does that reallycometo? It greatlyimpressedme, I’ll say.
SR: I’m suretheyweresurprisedat beingasked! But Ithinkthat’s marvelous.
BH: Wouldn’t you characterizetheresponse that perhaps theyshould havemade,
“Yes, Ibelieve,evenif Idon’t yet understandwhat it means.” That that
fundamental volitional trust was this stance youtooktothescriptures andto your
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page7
ownsubject (AWA: Yes.)that might havedistinguished youfrom some
colleagues?
AWA: Perhaps.
BH: Perhaps youcouldexpandon that. (laughter)
AWA: Please,do goahead.
SR: No, Iwouldlike youtoexpandonthat,andtalkmoreabout theapproach,based
onwhat you werejust saying,what yourapproach is. I’ve gotten somesenseof
it,but when youwouldbespeakingwiththestudents, forexample.
AWA: Ialways brought theissue, let’s say,home. Ialways brought theissuehometo
theirownopportunityfor self-inquiry—bywhich Ihadareferenceto
psychoanalysis orwhatever. But just tostart from scratch. In conferences inmy
office, Ithinkvirtuallyalmost all students respondedtothat well,whichwas
fortunateforme. Ialso promisedmyclasses that Iwouldn’t bringanything
forwardthat Ihadn’t undergonemyself,that Iwasn’t just theretobabbleoffthe
topofmyhead. Iwantedthem tohaveconfidencethat what Iwas sayingwas
rootedinwhat Ihadundergone. Ithinkonthewholetheyappreciatedthat,didn’t
they?
SR: Oh, Iwouldthinkso. Yeah.
AWA: Idon’t thinkteachingoccurs inanyother context—not genuineteaching.
SR: Did youfindsomeofthe colleagues here—besides yourmeetingwiththe
pastors—shared yoursenseofwhat you’redescribingphilosophicallyinterms of
thewaytoteachandrelatetostudents? Overtheyears withcolleagues here,were
thereanythat youbecameclosewithandtalked about thesethings with?
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page8
AWA: This is anembarrassingquestion—not because you’retryingto be
embarrassing—but it’s embarrassingtohaveto answerit bysayingno.
SR: Clearlyyou wereadmiredbyotherprofessors. In thetributethat theygave,it
seems theyadmired what youweredoing, and Iwas just wonderingifthat [it?]
shared,but apparentlynot.
AWA: Well,admirationis astrangesentiment. Onecan admirewhat onedoesn’t feel
oneis at thetimeresonatingwith.
SR: True.
AWA: So Iwouldn’t put toomuchstock….
SR: But younurturedthis department,apparently,becauseit grewand expanded,so
yourparticular waybecamewhat madethis happen. Andso everythingthat you
bringwith youprobablycontributedtothis. Idon’t knowwhether you’dliketo
goback,but I’m just curious, because Ifindit wonderful andfascinatingthat you
studiedliteratureandthenphilosophy. Theexpressioninpoetry,inrelationship
topoetry,is so central to you. Iwas just wonderinghowthat—if you wish to—
how you cameuponthis pathwayleadingtofinallythedoctorateinreligion. But
youstartedwithcomparativeliterature,and Iwonderedhowthat happened.
AWA: From achild Ihadalways onehugequestion: What is it all about? When Iwas
goingtoColumbia, Icametothinkthat Iought toreadthoseliteratures that deal
withthat question,andparticularlythewisdom books oftheBibledothat. And
evenintheCatholicversion,whichincludes theApocrypha,the attempt todeal
withthewisdom traditionis heartilypresent. But unfortunately,thewisdom
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page9
traditionis paidalmost noattentiontoat all academically. The academyitself
seems tometobebasicallyastrange[one?].
SR: So youfocusedonthose literatures that relatedto thewisdom tradition. Andthen
didthat involveall theeasternphilosophies as well?
AWA: Oh yes. Yes, myinvolvement witheasternthought,oriental thought, Indian and
fareasterntraditions, was always withinthecontext ofthewisdom tradition.
SR: Isee. Inthe easterntradition—and Iam not veryfamiliarwithall ofthis, but I
will try—I’vereadreferences tothe IChing. Could youtell meabout that and
howit relates tothis?
AWA: Well,it’s thefirst oftheConfucianclassics. At least fortheChineseand
Japanese,it’s revered,and it’s also anoracle. Andif youask aquestion,and,let
us say, “throwthe coins,”theanswerwill send youtoagivenhexagram within
the IChing. That gives youareference forwhateverit was that youwere
concernedtobringup. Ioftenadvisemystudents tostart theirdayout with
“askingtheoracle.” It’s consularfortheirbehaviorfortheday. Andthen Iask
them toask it whenthedaywas over,toask it for agradehowtheymadeout.
Manyofthem foundthat useful. Someofthem still doit.
SR: Youmentionedtheoracle. Did you also exploreandteach about oracles in
different cultures, andhavejust triedtoexplorealittle?
AWA: No, Ididn’t takeahistorical approachtoit,but ratheranintrinsicone.
SR: Got it. Soas the years went byat SanDiegoState,did youfindthat youchanged
thecurriculum indifferent ways, ordidit just evolve,orprettymuchstayedas it
was?
AllanW.Anderson,July17,2009,Draft1,Page10