Continuing the Conversation - Living Control Systems Publishing

286 Pages·2009·3.58 MB·English

Continuing the Conversation
A Newsletter on the A Newsletter of
Ideas of Gregory Bateson Ideas in Cybernetics
Issues number 1–7 and 19–24 Issues number 8–18
Offi cial newsletter of the American Society of Cybernetics, ASC, issues number 6–18
This newslet er features numerous signifi cant
contributions related to Gregory Bateson,
Cybernetics and Perceptual Control Theory.
Reprint / Copyright notice
Due to the historic signifi cance and educational value of the discussions embodied in
Continuing the Conversation, all issues (#1, Spring 1985 through #24, Spring 1991) have
been recreated complete by Dag Forssell in 2009.
This newslet er is now available free to anyone interested. It was published in an era
when agreements between authors and the newslet er editor/publisher were very informal.
The original consent to publish contributions in the printed newslet er can be construed
as extending to this complete digital reprint, but in the spirit of the copyright statements
embodied in the newslet er, major contributors have been contacted for agreement where
possible. The dozen who have responded have all been enthusiastic in their approval.
In case of concern, contact Dag Forssell <
Dag Forssell was here
CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION, Contents I
Table of Contents
Pages / Page number
Number 1, Summer Solstice 1985 4
“Continuing What Conversation?” Introduction by Greg Williams, editor 1
About “The Pattern Which Connects” Symposium 1
Bateson Tapes Available from Pacifi ca Radio Archive 1
Bateson Videotapes 2
Financial Support Needed for Bateson Archival Work 2
A Computer Program for “Getting Unstuck” By Michael Tannenbaum 2
Dissertations and Theses on Bateson’s Ideas 2
About Gregory Bateson 2
Upcoming Events 3
Correspondents Wanted 3
Work In Progress 3
Editor’s Choice 3
Number 2, Fall 1985 6
The “Conversation” Continues… 1
Transformation By Greg Bechle 1
Bateson and Phenomenology By Michael Yocum 2
Annual Gregory Bateson Lecture Established In Philadelphia 3
Correspondents Wanted 3
Gaia Poem By Neill Kramer 4
Bateson Studies in Japan 4
Continuing the Conversation in New York City By Paul Ryan 4
…and an Open Question
Upcoming Events ... and an Open Question 5
Perusing The Periodicals 5
Help Needed from Southwestern Anthropologists 5
Bateson’s Books Reviewed – Part 1 6
Editor’s Choice 6
Number 3, Winter 1985 6
The Conversation Continues...! 1
Words to Gregory Bateson By Philip Stewart 1
Steps to a New Consciousness By James McNeley 1
A Story and a Preliminary Call for Papers 2
Gregory Bateson and the Map–Territory Relationship By David Shiner 2
“Conversations in Cybernetics” Meeting 4
Zeitschrift für Systemische Therapie 4
About Gregory Bateson, Recently 4
Work in Progress 5
Perusing the Periodicals 5
Bateson’s Books Reviewed—Part 2 6
Bateson & Mead Reminiscences on Tape 6
II CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION, Contents
Number 4, Spring 1986 6
An Epimetaparable by Carol Wilder 1
Wake up and Go to Sleep! by Elisabeth H. Thomas 2
Words to Philip Stewart by Janie Matrisciano 3
Boulder, Colorado; Summer 1975 by Lion Goodman 4
Maps vs. Territories by Michael Melius 5
Bateson Books Reviewed—Part 3 5
Perusing the Periodicals 5
What Mirrors Do (and Don’t Do) 6
Number 5, Summer 1986 10
Gregory Bateson Archive Opens This Summer By Rodney E. Donaldson 1
The Map–Territory Relationship Revisited By David Shiner 1
Strong, Brief Reactions By Avery R. Johnson 1
“Isms” By Stephen Nachmanovitch 2
Some Refl ections By Humberto R. Maturana 2
Kant, Constructivism, and the Territorial Dogma By Ernst von Glasersfeld 3
Aesthetics Is the Feeling Function By Philip Lewin 3
Mapping By Peter Harries-Jones 5
... and Back to David Shiner By David Shiner 7
Mirror, Mirror on the Ceiling! By Avery R. Johnson 8
American Society for Cybernetics Videotapes 9
Perusing the Publications 9
Bateson Books Reviewed—Part 4 10
Number 6, Fall 1986 10
The Conversation Expands 1
A Conversation By Greg Bechle, Ty Cashman, and John Dunne 1
Metalogue on Mind By Neill Kramer 3
Living Ideas: Some Propositions By Laurence J. Victor 4
A Letter By Gail Raney Fleischaker 5
CC: Boring and Disappointing By Michael Luke Aitken 6
Upcoming Meetings 7
Impressions of Recent Conferences By Larry Richards 7
Perusing the Publications 8
Of Interest to ASC Members 9
Can You Think Like a Russian? 10
Number 7, Winter 1986 20
The Pattern of Conversations to Come 1
“Control Systems Theory” 1
On Purpose By W.T. Powers 1
A Control Conversation By William Powers and Ernst von Glasersfeld 3
Letters By Larry Richards and Bill Powers 4
Control Systems and Psychological Applications By Douglas A. Ross 6
CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION, Contents III
Number 7, Winter 1986, continued
Control Systems and Cardiovascular Reactivity... By Raymond Pavloski 8
Control Systems in a Clinical Setting By David M. Goldstein 10
CST and Self Image By Richard J. Robertson 11
The Role of Feelings in Control Systems Theory By Edward E. Ford 11
A Moving Conversation By Lawrence William Goldfarb 13
Control Theory and the Smithian Economics By W.D. Williams 14
Legitimacy of Subjectivity By Miro Valach 18
A Basic Bibliography of Control Systems Theory Compiled by Greg Williams 18
Regarding Bateson and Powers By Dr. Laurence D. Richards 19
The Control Systems Group 20
Number 8, Spring 1987 8
A Question of Values By Elisabeth H. Thomas 1
The Twain Shall Meet By Elisabeth H. Thomas 1
Behavioral Output Can Be Controlled (In a Sense) By Roger K. Pitman 2
Half a Loaf? By Michael Yocum 3
Some Thoughts on the Occult and the Supernatural in By W. Tom Bourbon 4
Cybernetics, Behaviorism, and Cognitive Science
The Dream of Reality: A Review By Eric G. Carbone 5
Two Gregory Bateson Poems By Stephen Nachmanovitch 6
“Bateson” Stars? 6
“The New Clarity” Conference–Workshop 6
CST Videotapes and Workshop 6
ASC News 7
Fundraising, Jobs, Conferences, Journals
Number 9, Summer 1987 10
Is Control Theory Just Another Point of View? By William T. Powers 1
Who (or What) Is in Control Here? By Roger K. Pitman 2
“Half a Loaf?” By Mary Powers 2
Dear Michael Yocum By Philip Runkel 3
Reply to Philip Runkel By Michael Yocum 3
In Lieu of a Reply to the Powerses By Michael Yocum 4
Some Heretical Thoughts about Control Theory By Michael Hyland 5
A Larger View of Control Theory: In Pursuit of the ULOM By Tom Weathers, Jr. 6
Love Guaranteed or “The Job of Loving” By John R. Neill 7
Re: CC Number 7 By Michael Luke Aitken 8
Refl ections on the St. Gallen Conference By Larry Richards 9
ASC News 10
Number 10, Fall 1987 18
Recollections By Neill Kramer 1
Random Thoughts on Angels Fear By Mark Siegeltuch 1
Rushing In By Avery R. Johnson 2
Reactions By John R. Neill 3
IV CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION, Contents
Number 10, Fall 1987, continued
A Metalogue on Angels Fear By Douglas Flemons, Jerry Gale, 3
and Wendel Ray
The “Sacred” in Navajo Religion and By James K. McNeley 5
Batesonian Holistic Science
Some Thoughts on Interpenetration: By George F. Cairns, Jr 6
A Response to Angels Fear
Some Comments on Angels Fear By Joan Arnold 6
A Conversation Piece By Mike Preston 8
Where Angels Fear. They Dare By Lawrence A. Waldman 9
Critique of Angels Fear By Laurence J. Victor 9
With Love and Trepidation By Burl Grey 11
Bateson’s Cybernetics of Liberation and By Dan White 11
the Bureaucracy of the Sacred
To Michael Yocum: By Mary A. Powers 15
Two Projects: Representing Action. Planning “Control” By Geraldine Fennell 15
Feeback By Philip J. Runkel 17
Three Conceptions of Conversation By Stuart A. Umpleby 17
Number 11, Winter 1987 18
On Angels Fear By Klaus Krippendorff 1
Not Only Angels Fear By Philip Lewin 2
Puffi ng Salt on the Demon’s Tail By Peter Harries-Jones 4
Angels Fear and the Understanding of Aesthetic Rationality By Jürgen W. Kremer 6
Time, Words, Knowing, Information By Rhoda Gilman 8
A Letter about Angels Fear From Janie Matrisciano 8
Black Racing Stripe By Elisabeth H. Thomas 10
Firetower, Full Moon, Angels Fear By Greg Bechle 12
Control Theory and Cybernetics By William T. Powers 13
Ugliness: A Reply to Yocum, White, and Others By Tom Bourbon 14
A Further Note on the Smithian Economics By W.D. Williams 16
Comments on “Three Conceptions of Conversation” By James E. Brassert 16
On the 1987 ASC Meeting By Larry Richards 18
1988 ASC Meetings 18
Symposium Announcement 18
Control Systems Group 1987 Meeting Tapes 18
Number 12, Spring 1988 20
A Letter From Heinz von Foerster 1
The Utility of Cybernetics By Staff ord Beer 2
Cybernetics and Utility By Ranulph Glanville 3
A Letter From Irene “K” Staats 4
Should Cybernetics Be Useful? By Ernst von Glasersfeld 5
Psychology and Ecology: On the Unavoidability of Ethics By Jürgen Hargens 5
The Notions of Cybernetics By Humberto Maturana 7
On Cybernetics as Refl exive Understanding By Frederick Steier 7
Not Without Us By Joseph Weizenbaum 8
CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION, Contents V
Number 12, Spring 1988, continued
Two Pieces on the Utility of Cybernetics By Larry Richards 11
Cybernetics: Words and Images By Paul Schroeder 12
Bateson, Peirce, and Heidegger By Paul Ryan 14
Setting the Record Straight By Michael Hyland 16
Demonstrating Control Theory By Charles W. Tucker 16
1988 Meetings of the American Society for Cybernetics 19
Second Special European Conference of 19
the American Society for Cybernetics
4th International Conference on Systems Research, 20
Informatics, and Cybernetics
1st International Congress on Systems for Development 20
Number 13, Summer 1988 14
Pomegranate Extract By Irene “K” Staats 1
Whose Utility? By Michael Luke Aitken 2
To Know and Not to Act Is Not to Know By Kathleen Forsythe and Candace Wedder 3
Cybernetics: Is Usefulness Important? Yes! By Mary A. Powers 3
Does “Understanding” Convey Its Meaning
Better than “Control”? No!
The Interfacing of Systems By Kenneth Silvestri 4
Responsible Cybernetics for Humane Progress By Gary Boyd 5
A Letter From James E. Brassert 5
EXPEDITION Synergistic, Eco-holarchical, Metamorphic, By Laurence J. Victor 6
Emergence of Noosphere
“Should Cybernetics Be Useful?” By several contributors 8
A Conversation among Non-Cyberneticians
What Is Special about Behavioral Cybernetics? By Geraldine Fennell 10
Cybernetics and Traditional Symbolism By Mark Siegeltuch 13
Special Fall 1988 ASC Conference 14
“Support, Society, and Culture” 14
Number 14, Fall 1988 8
Terrorized Angel Seeks Guidance By Rafael Ramirez 1
Two Experiments in Verse-Making By Irene “K” Staats 2
On Behaviorists, Control Theorists, and Straw Men By Bryan D. Midgley 3
Reply: And Yet They Seek Goals By Richard S. Marken 4
Comment: The Trouble with S-Delta By William T. Powers 5
Rejoinder: Straw Men... Again By Bryan D. Midgley 6
On the Ambiguity of Action By Mary A. Powers 6
Quote of the Quarter 7
1989 ASC Meeting: CONNECTIONS 7
“Support, Society, and Culture” 8
8th International Congress of Cybernetics and Systems 8
Announcements from the IST 8
VI CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION, Contents
Number 15, Winter 1988 30
The Cybernetic Basis of Human Behavior and Performance By Thomas J. Smith and Karl U. Smith 1
A special issue of Continuing the Conversation devoted to behavioral
cybernetics
Number 16, Spring 1989 16
An Issue of Refl ections 1
In re “Behavioral Cybernetics”... 1
When Self-Regulation is Not Regulation by a Self By Dennis J. Delprato 1
(or the Tortuous Career of Naturalistic Behavioral Control)
Please Spread the Word By Philip J. Runkel 2
At Last, Serious Dialogue on Cybernetics By Richard J. Robertson 3
Problems with the Smiths By William T. Powers 3
Comments for the Smiths By Tom Bourbon 4
The Cybernetic Basis of Behavior By Ernst von Glasersfeld 5
Forging Feedback for the Smiths By Paul Ryan 6
The Cybernetics of Pleroma: A Response to the Smiths By Philip Lewin 7
“Texts in Cybernetic Theory”: Five Viewpoints 9
Footnote to Felton By Mary A. Powers 9
The Highlight for Me By Michael Morgan 9
Making It Clearer By W.D. Williams 9
The Yellow Brick Road By Mary San Martino 10
By Any Other Name By William T. Powers 11
Guestages By Robert Flannery 12
Three Positive Points By Richard S. Marken 13
Listening By R. Lori 14
A Precursor to Cybernetics 14
Call for Papers 15
An Invitation From Marshall Scot Poole 15
Eighth International Congress of Cybernetics and Systems 16
12th International Congress on Cybernetics 16
Systemic Therapy: A European Perspective 16
A Turn in the Conversation... By Greg Williams 16
Number 17, Summer 1989 14
The Elysian Dialogs By Tyrone Cashman 1
Concerning the Phrase “The Utility of Cybernetics” By Kirk Corey 9
Interplay: On the Need to Adapt Educational By Michael Luke Aitken 10
Method to Organismic Process
Freedom or Control? By Neill Kramer 13
Book Review By Paul Ryan 13
Electronic Mailing List for Systems Science & Cybernetics 14
American Society for Cybernetics Election Results 14
CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION, Contents VII
Number 18, Fall 1989 14
Co-Menting: Toward a Systemic Poietology? By Klaus G. Deissler 1
Comments on “Co-Menting: By Tom Andersen, Lynn Hoff man, 10
Bradford P. Keeney, and Peggy Penn
Toward a Systemic Poietology
Co-co-ments By Klaus G. Deissler. 12
A Note from the Editor By Greg Williams 13
Book Review By Gary Ronjak 13
Volitional Action: Conation and Control 14
New Book by William T. Powers 14
Call for Papers: 14
1990 International System Dynamics Conference
Number 19, Winter 1989/90 8
Back to Bateson 1
Some Thoughts on a Cybernetic Hermeneutics By George F. Cairns, Jr. 1
The Theory of Logical Typing: Context and Paradox By Daniel G. Freedman 3
Ecology and the Mind By M. Elliot Vit es 4
Bateson Study Group in Chicago 8
Gregory Bateson–Carl Rogers Dialogue Published 8
Number 20, Spring 1990 8
A Meeting of Minds By Dane Archer 1
“The Relation Between Rigor and Imagination”: By Douglas Flemons 5
Course Syllabus, Fall 1990
What Is the Most Beautiful Question? By Robert Flannery, 7
About Gregory Bateson’s Library By Gregory Williams 7
Two Important New Books 8
Number 21–22, Summer/Fall 1990 16
Toward a Secondary Bibliography of Gregory Bateson Compiled by Greg Williams 1
Book Review By Martin B. Mathews 14
Why Is ESP “Impossible”? By Steven M. Kemp 15
Number 23–24, Winter 1990/Spring 1991 12
Exemplary Parables: Stories Bateson Told Compiled by Greg Williams 1
Refl ections on Number and Pattern: By Mark Siegeltuch 10
Some Trivial, Most Quadrivial
Some Thoughts on Mary Catherine Bateson’s By Rhoda R. Gilman 11
Composing a Life
Differences Which Might Make a Difference to You 12
One Last Bateson Quotation 12
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